Author Topic: Questionnaire discussion  (Read 8567 times)

Lady Rainicorn

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2013, 11:51:10 pm »
Quote from: "Smack"
Example.

I mean really, did that thread need to have a moderator warning on it? This is the sort of anal rule following that ruins a bit of fun people were having, without making some huge drastic thread derail. That thread would have been perfectly fine had it been left alone.

No offence intended Rob.
Hey Smack just to explain why I took action in that thread, it was a Public Discussion thread about MoF business and I would happily have allowed such talk in general or irc, but I felt the posting was detrimental to the thread at hand and stopped further constructive posting. I gave a little community message to this effect, the official warning only came when the line was crossed.

That my rule when modding I will be fair but not a walk over.

I do realise some my class this as off topic in this thread but feel it will help with the modding discussion at hand.

Cheers
Founder of eUK Domestic eCricket League
Special Forces
FM #39
MBE
Ex-Speaker of the HoC


Bohemond4

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2013, 12:32:49 am »
I think Goku and Talon between them have hit the nail on the head at the moment.

I have a question for you Goku, if the forums changed to be more along the lines you and Talon have discussed, would you be willing to actively promote these forums in your party?
Viscount of Cambridge
We should all just quit the game.  It just to flowering divisive



Butjam

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2013, 12:42:26 am »
Quote from: "Robalbinio"
Quote from: "Smack"
Example.

I mean really, did that thread need to have a moderator warning on it? This is the sort of anal rule following that ruins a bit of fun people were having, without making some huge drastic thread derail. That thread would have been perfectly fine had it been left alone.

No offence intended Rob.
Hey Smack just to explain why I took action in that thread, it was a Public Discussion thread about MoF business and I would happily have allowed such talk in general or irc, but I felt the posting was detrimental to the thread at hand and stopped further constructive posting. I gave a little community message to this effect, the official warning only came when the line was crossed.

That my rule when modding I will be fair but not a walk over.

I do realise some my class this as off topic in this thread but feel it will help with the modding discussion at hand.

Cheers
I feel that Rob posting that was fair, we had a little bit of a laugh and then reminded to keep talking about the report. The posts by N W G are the 'backseat moderating' that we don't want to see. When you have an issue with any moderation, click the report button or speak to an admin. It's what we're here for. Admins deliberately avoid moderating so that we can be the next ones to look it over if people have a problem with it.

We want people to comment on our performance, that's the only way to stay relevant and reading some of the responses I begin to wonder if we've not been criticised enough before now for fear of repercussions. Speak to an admin, or open a thread in the suggestions forum if you want to be transparent where everyone can see it.

Smack did the right thing by bringing it up somewhere relevant, here, where both the mod involved and now an admin have given our views on it. N W G has posted twice in the thread where it wasn't necessary and I hope people understand why we issue infractions for that.

Oh, speaking of complaining about modding, let me copy something from the irc room

Quote
[22:36] <&butjam> I don't know why people have to be such dickheads about it all
[22:36] <&butjam> THere's never any "Hi, we'd like to see these changes please"
[22:37] <&butjam> It's always "THE FORUMS ARE SHIT AND YOU'RE SHIT AND IT'S ALL SHIT AND MAKE SOME FUCKING CHANGES"
That's me being grumpy and calling the lot of you dickheads (which I wouldn't normally do in public and I'm sorry for it)but that's honestly how it feels sometimes. None of us get anything out of this (except a power trip) so it's not very fun when we get really nasty comments and get called 'stupid' and 'useless'. It's not much to ask for you to be polite. A couple weeks back now, Gav popped up to me on IRC to appeal some infraction points, he was really friendly and polite and it didn't feel like a chore overturning them. Goku was also very polite in appealing them and it was the quickest resolution to a dispute we've ever had.
Quote
[20:04] <&butjam> .seen TheMessiah
[20:04] <&fapfire> Looking for yourself, eh butjam?

Quote from: RodneyMcKay
Can we all just play the game and have a bit of fun please.
Angry butjam is best butjam.

Dishmcds

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2013, 06:54:44 am »
I've been pondering on how to say this, but just to begin, frankly I thought Rob's response to the MoF topic in light of a few OT posts was warranted, tbh. Iain probably should have gotten points for his post, but then you'd have to give them to Butjam for his.

Even though I disagree with almost everything Goku says (as well as BigAnt) mainly because their antagonising, argumentative, disruptive [mean people], most of the people here are correct in that the forums are horribly inactive given where they have come from. Before anyone starts, its not Dan being "removed", or Frerk, or even Kumnaa having enough of a life that he doesn't need to be here forever. It has to do with the shift in type of player that Erepublik has, in my opinion.

Back when the forums where larger and more active than about half the countries in Erepublik, we were people who tried to do what the game allowed, as well as create the things you now have in game (cabinets, etc). We had to have this forum because there were no good places on Erepublik to talk about things. Over the first couple of years, the population was consistent, led by the people bred from the same generation of players.

In the last few years, we've managed to keep fewer and fewer with our older players going inactive (myself included), and the likes of players such as Goku, BigAnt, Alfa, etc basically taking their roles as outcasts and using it to both smear those who use the forums in the way only they can (essentially lying about them), and creating a rift so that there are a large group of players who are in game based, ignore everyone else, buy their stats (in gold purchase) rather than just earning it the way we had to, and so on.

If you want the forums to be "better" again in comparison to what they used to be, you'd have to adjust the fact that most of those here don't play Erepublik nearly as actively as we used to, communicate in game about them, make cosmetic changes (perhaps new skins, features, etc) to make them attractive to players that like shiny things, and above all, talk to the people playing the game and let them get to know you. That's the only way to neuter people like Goku and BigAnt who use their fuel about "how awful" the forums are, really, is to get to know those people, and show them that you're not the god awful elitist twats that they say you are.

Just my two cents.
[size=150]Former 7 time Erepublikan President[/size]

Hermanos

Niemand

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2013, 08:19:11 am »
You put the nail on the head.  :!:

Because we cannot change the game itself (and can only hope the promised change in economics would bring real improvement) we can only try to make the forum itself more attractive (not my kind of job sorry).

That said we must try to change the climate on the forums too. I do hate some people here, I do try to not attack those people. I try to be more positive to the ones that are trying to improve the forums and eUK. Let us all try (and do not expect the trolls to change, best to ignore them).  :)
Lady of the Lake

Thomas765

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2013, 08:36:55 am »
Quote from: "Gav Miller"
The Applaud/Smite feature I suggested could automatically ban a person for a certain number of days at a certain number of smites. So any continued shit posting could be combated by the forum community as a whole and not just the mod team.

Although this could easily be abused and unliked members of the community could find themselves being banned by the rest of the forum community quite a lot :3

Yeah because 50 people smiting Goku or Iain for the hell of it and then having them banned for 3 days is a great idea. The Smite/Applaud system on the US forums has been heavily abused. I think it would be a good idea to have a similar system in place though, not that smites/applauds are an accurate measure of how well someone posts. A like feature or thumbs up/down feature for posts may be a good idea. I find myself not wanting to post in PD but I do agree with what's being said some of the time.

Bohemond4

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2013, 08:51:16 am »
Quote from: "Thomas765"
Quote from: "Gav Miller"
The Applaud/Smite feature I suggested could automatically ban a person for a certain number of days at a certain number of smites. So any continued shit posting could be combated by the forum community as a whole and not just the mod team.

Although this could easily be abused and unliked members of the community could find themselves being banned by the rest of the forum community quite a lot :3

Yeah because 50 people smiting Goku or Iain for the hell of it and then having them banned for 3 days is a great idea. The Smite/Applaud system on the US forums has been heavily abused. I think it would be a good idea to have a similar system in place though, not that smites/applauds are an accurate measure of how well someone posts. A like feature or thumbs up/down feature for posts may be a good idea. I find myself not wanting to post in PD but I do agree with what's being said some of the time.

I want to like this post...
Viscount of Cambridge
We should all just quit the game.  It just to flowering divisive



Iain Keers

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2013, 09:45:07 am »
I'd be fine with a smite/applaud system, or even a repping system. however since nobody posts anything it seems pointless
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Smack

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2013, 03:31:42 pm »
Quote from: "Butjam"
We want people to comment on our performance, that's the only way to stay relevant and reading some of the responses I begin to wonder if we've not been criticised enough before now for fear of repercussions. Speak to an admin, or open a thread in the suggestions forum if you want to be transparent where everyone can see it.

Smack did the right thing by bringing it up somewhere relevant, here, where both the mod involved and now an admin have given our views on it. N W G has posted twice in the thread where it wasn't necessary and I hope people understand why we issue infractions for that.

It's because when something is brought up, it's not really dealt with. I sent a detailed email to Kumnaa and Nelsaidi about an issue that I had a legitimate reason to be pissed off about. Nothing got done about it by them, nor by Frerk at the time. It comes down to having no faith that the admins will do anything when there's an obvious bias. You're the first admin that's actually tried to improve this.

I accept your reasoning regarding the MoF thread, though I don't particularly agree.


[23] <@Artela> "Smack, aspiring to climb up to gutter level since 2009, and failing due to the lack of a ladder long enough"

Frerk

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2013, 03:38:36 pm »
Quote from: "Smack"
Quote from: "Butjam"
We want people to comment on our performance, that's the only way to stay relevant and reading some of the responses I begin to wonder if we've not been criticised enough before now for fear of repercussions. Speak to an admin, or open a thread in the suggestions forum if you want to be transparent where everyone can see it.

Smack did the right thing by bringing it up somewhere relevant, here, where both the mod involved and now an admin have given our views on it. N W G has posted twice in the thread where it wasn't necessary and I hope people understand why we issue infractions for that.

It's because when something is brought up, it's not really dealt with. I sent a detailed email to Kumnaa and Nelsaidi about an issue that I had a legitimate reason to be pissed off about. Nothing got done about it by them, nor by Frerk at the time. It comes down to having no faith that the admins will do anything when there's an obvious bias. You're the first admin that's actually tried to improve this.

I accept your reasoning regarding the MoF thread, though I don't particularly agree.
What issue was this and when? Because they never told me anything about you having any issue(God knows where Nelsaidi is anyway) and that can be a problem..
Former everything
Socialist UKRP echelon

Hermanos

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<Iain_Keers> I LOVE YOU FRERK
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Smack

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2013, 03:47:27 pm »
Quote from: "Frerk"
[What issue was this and when? Because they never told me anything about you having any issue(God knows where Nelsaidi is anyway) and that can be a problem..

Butjam has the email. He can pass it on. It was over a year ago, but it's still relevant in regards to admin and moderating the forum.


[23] <@Artela> "Smack, aspiring to climb up to gutter level since 2009, and failing due to the lack of a ladder long enough"

Butjam

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2013, 04:19:41 pm »
I'll bring it up once again because I feel it may have been glossed over a little.... Public Infraction Logs anyone? Me, Digby and Kdogg discussed this last night
Quote
[20:04] <&butjam> .seen TheMessiah
[20:04] <&fapfire> Looking for yourself, eh butjam?

Quote from: RodneyMcKay
Can we all just play the game and have a bit of fun please.
Angry butjam is best butjam.

Iain Keers

  • Party - TUP
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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #72 on: April 22, 2013, 05:17:20 pm »
Nobody cares about public infraction logs. Basically it is simple.

Premises:

1. The ingame population has declined slightly, but the forum use has declined massively
2. Many of the people in charge of the forums do not play the game
3. Those who do, don't advertise the forums or make any effort.
4. The people who do play the game and make an effort no longer want to use the forums


Conclusions

1. You need to replace all the inactive people who don't even play eRepublik properly with active people who do play.
2. This will lead to them having a stake in advertising the forums.
3. You also need to try and include community leaders who regularly communicate with hundreds of players, not alienate them.


Without these steps you're effectively burying your head in the sand. I mean look at Carlini for example. He doesn't post here much, but he's spent the last six months in contact with hundreds of players every day through his Legion project. He pretty much lifted it off the ground single handedly, and though he's had a lot of help along the way it's his brainchild. He's responsible for more communication with citizens than the entire admin team put together, and yet his views are getting dismissed/belittled by someone who hasn't logged into the game in a year. It's utterly ludicrous.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Frerk

  • Posts: 8338
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #73 on: April 22, 2013, 06:02:39 pm »
Quote from: "Iain Keers"
Without these steps you're effectively burying your head in the sand. I mean look at Carlini for example. He doesn't post here much, but he's spent the last six months in contact with hundreds of players every day through his Legion project. He pretty much lifted it off the ground single handedly, and though he's had a lot of help along the way it's his brainchild. He's responsible for more communication with citizens than the entire admin team put together, and yet his views are getting dismissed/belittled by someone who hasn't logged into the game in a year. It's utterly ludicrous.
If Digby can't give his views because he hasn't logged into the game for a while then why should we listen to people who don't want to use the forums?
Former everything
Socialist UKRP echelon

Hermanos

Quote
<Iain_Keers> I LOVE YOU FRERK
<Iain_Keers> JESUS flower
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Malkaiser

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2013, 06:54:50 pm »
There is a lot to reply to here so I'll just cut to the heart of this. I'm going to leave out much of my reasoning to get a short sharp message:


I want to use a eUK Forum, many of the people here do and it is why we are here. It it is needed to bind together and serve the eRepublik UK community.
Another group are really good friends and want to use a forum to keep in touch and it is why they are still here. I don't think anyone would begrudge them this or them running it their way.

There is an overlap but mostly these two groups don't need each other and want different things. This conflict is damaging the eRepublik UK community and damaging the eUK Forums community. It is time to part ways.

Lady Rainicorn

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #75 on: April 22, 2013, 07:06:41 pm »
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
There is a lot to reply to here so I'll just cut to the heart of this. I'm going to leave out much of my reasoning to get a short sharp message:


I want to use a eUK Forum, many of the people here do and it is why we are here. It it is needed to bind together and serve the eRepublik UK community.
Another group are really good friends and want to use a forum to keep in touch and it is why they are still here. I don't think anyone would begrudge them this or them running it their way.

There is an overlap but mostly these two groups don't need each other and want different things. This conflict is damaging the eRepublik UK community and damaging the eUK Forums community. It is time to part ways.

Since my return I've not really seen this divide, people are quicker to argue than debate for sure. I discussed this the other night on the irc that even at the height of the HoL debate when people were at each others throats PD moved along quite well.

I did miss the whole move away from the forums that happened in 2012 so can't comment on why this occured but I think the forums can easily be a place for both constructive erep stuff and a community to chat, I don't see how you feel these conflict? If you could elaborate on this. Or is it a case of we now have two such different camps in terms of how the country should be run we can never bridge the gap?
Founder of eUK Domestic eCricket League
Special Forces
FM #39
MBE
Ex-Speaker of the HoC


Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #76 on: April 22, 2013, 07:26:57 pm »
The battle for how the country should be run has been won and lost already.

The divide has changed and now isn't really between eRepublik players so much anymore as between eRepublik players and non eRepublik players. If I joined today without the history I don't think I'd have many problems with the parties actually active in game like TUP and vice versa, it was all about the stuff off the game and the occasional undealt with backstabbing.

I think the problems are more practicalities like:
1) Having all big parties represented and doing community building as Iain says vs having your mates running it.
2) Having the elected government ministers actually upgrading and improving the forums vs having someone with no time for this anymore because he kindly pays for it.

One is great for a group of friends playing some games together and I wouldn't ask you to do it any other way. One is great for bringing together an alliance of clans/guilds/parties to work together for a single goal - which we desperatly need.

Wayne

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #77 on: April 22, 2013, 07:32:54 pm »
I'll say it again...

Quote from: "WayneKerr"
Porn/racism/anything illegal then clamp down hard and ban.  Anything else then meh, just let it go.





Lady Rainicorn

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2013, 07:42:51 pm »
Quote from: "Goku Jones"

I think the problems are more practicalities like:
1) Having all big parties represented and doing community building as Iain says vs having your mates running it.
2) Having the elected government ministers actually upgrading and improving the forums vs having someone with no time for this anymore because he kindly pays for it.

I'll just focus on these two for now fella as I'm cooking dinner

1) I can see the need for it to end the constant 'you went against me cos your in a different party' but at the end of the day what do we class big as top 5?, Its a bit harder now we have alot of quite large parties. What if someone from there is unsuitable for the power it brings or a party just doesn't have a member they feel confident in putting forward. There are pluses and minuses on both sides, tbf I think the current system just with open application process would be the best compromise. Then people can see who applied, what they said and the current teams reasonings for approval/declining there application.

2) I disagree strongly here, yeah Kumnaas not been around for a long time, but hes a constant rock in keeping this forum going. Governments change, what if someone comes into office who won't pay for the forum or can't be bothered to do it.

I would like to see alot more Ministry activity here definitely the ministry section used to be a hive of activity but now they seem to be one man bands outside of MoFA Ambassadors a few apprentices again so new players have more to do than party politicking would be awesome.
Founder of eUK Domestic eCricket League
Special Forces
FM #39
MBE
Ex-Speaker of the HoC


Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2013, 08:14:22 pm »
These are things we need to discuss sure, but they are not insumountable obstacles. Since most people don't want moderators anyway that is less of an issue, we just need to find someone willing to be a neutral but active patron to fund it or a group who chip in for it.

What we have now has it's own set of problems. Kind person pays for forums, appoints his friends who appoint several generations of people they like hasn't exactly been successful. Proven by the more and more frequent "oh wait nobody is using the forums!? what do we do?" threads.