Author Topic: Gender and sex  (Read 10972 times)

paultyndale

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 192
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2014, 04:42:20 pm »
interesting debate

If I claim I'm a giraffe or a zebra does it mean I can expect other people to call me one?
Surely the process of identifying something is by whether they fit the general description, so that an apple is an apple and a person homo sapiens is defined accordingly.  Claiming you are a man or a woman does not make it so unless you are one.
If I walked down the street in high heels, a dress and a wig I would be a man wearing women's clothes not a woman.
If I changed my name to Susan then I can expect people to call me Susan but I cannot expect people to call me something I am not




Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2014, 05:11:19 pm »
interesting debate

If I claim I'm a giraffe or a zebra does it mean I can expect other people to call me one?
Surely the process of identifying something is by whether they fit the general description, so that an apple is an apple and a person homo sapiens is defined accordingly.  Claiming you are a man or a woman does not make it so unless you are one.
If I walked down the street in high heels, a dress and a wig I would be a man wearing women's clothes not a woman.
If I changed my name to Susan then I can expect people to call me Susan but I cannot expect people to call me something I am not

But that's nonsense. Gender dysphoria is a commonly (and by that I mean medically) accepted disorder and is treated in this country and many more. Just because you might not be willing to accept that someone actually believes their sex is not their gender doesn't mean that you can try to take an objective and sex-based approach at identity. There's no possible way of taking an objective approach in evaluating a human mind.

Sex is a physiological and biological identity. It is what sexual organs and chromosomes, etc. you have.

Gender is a psychological identity. It is a part of your sense of self and completely subjective - whatever physiology you have is only relevant in being one of many influences.

(id say people are whatever they think they are,...)
Except most people are not what they think or claim to be...

Uhh, whut?
HRH Pope Digby V, Prince of Hanover, KC, KG, KP, GBE, OGS, FRSL, BGD, PhD
Chancellor of BBH Open University


Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2014, 06:13:31 pm »
I think you have to go to some real effort if you want to be acknowledged as the other genital group.

I keep seeing transgender people (about three I have slight occasional contact with) who have basically gone from "I'm a long haired nerd who wears wear shorts and tshirt" to "I'm a long haired girl who wears hotpants and tshirt", then either their moobs are now boobs or they are just petite so have small boobs. Obviously they don't wear makeup because some of the nerd girls they know don't wear makeup.

They haven't actually changed themselves in any way at all!

Ser Fartsalot

  • Party - WRP
  • Posts: 58
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2014, 09:11:19 pm »
Except most people are not what they think or claim to be...

Uhh, whut?

I wasn't talking about gender issues only. Just pointing out that our image that we portray to others reflects our desires and how we want to be perceived. There are cases of people wanting to be other gender and then changing their mind or acting like gays in front of business people because that would open up more opportunities.


Another interesting topic is people who go on a sex change operation and then decide they want to back to original state. And if there should be any age limit to undergo such an operation.

Rob the Bruce

  • Party - UKRP
  • Posts: 197
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2014, 10:03:30 pm »
I don't really have a strong opinion on the issue, simply because I don't understand it in the slightest. Never quite got why you'd want to be a different gender, makes no difference.
Let's all bicker like married people that loathe each other.

Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2014, 12:17:42 am »
I don't really have a strong opinion on the issue, simply because I don't understand it in the slightest. Never quite got why you'd want to be a different gender, makes no difference.
Sexist/Homophobic people who can't stand the fact that they don't fit their own sterotypes of a "normal person"? Or they have bad luck with women so want to try being a "lesbian".

Sexagenarian

  • Grumpy Old F@rt
  • Posts: 756
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2014, 07:45:28 am »

Sexist/Homophobic people who can't stand the fact that they don't fit their own sterotypes of a "normal person"? Or they have bad luck with women so want to try being a "lesbian".
Isn't it strange that it's now politically correct to support those unfortunate members of society that want to self mutilate.

It also seems politically correct to stridently shout down anyone with a dissenting opinion

Carlini8

  • MU - Command - The Legion
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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2014, 09:42:02 am »
For me it is simple.

XX - Female, XY Male. Do whatever you want to yourself after birth, call yourself what you want, do what you want, but if your DNA comes into the lab for my company you are getting listed as whatever that says and that is either the result for the test we are doing or the gender the police are going to be looking for.

Then again, that is what a few years in DNA testing does to you.

Iain Keers

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 12057
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2014, 11:07:38 am »
I think people are getting confused here. If someone came to my hospital they might be listed on the official records as female (even if they prefer to be thought of as male) with a note explaining. However if we send them a letter we call them Mr Jones because they's how they prefer to be addressed.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Sam010

  • Party - PCP
  • Posts: 134
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2014, 09:22:20 pm »

...acting like gays in front of business people because that would open up more opportunities.


You're an odd creature.

Ser Fartsalot

  • Party - WRP
  • Posts: 58
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2014, 11:42:03 pm »

...acting like gays in front of business people because that would open up more opportunities.


You're an odd creature.

Nah, I was just watching that episode of Ally McBeal where they pretended to be lesbian in front of employers. xD

johnobrow

  • Posts: 13707
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2014, 03:23:53 am »
About gender: there is a lot between male and female (not only XXY and other genetic variations on the X/Y things but other genetics are important to for your gender and sex (or other words with about the same meaning).

It's an important point that actually lots of people don't fit the male and female categories that supposedly exist in biology. There are various combinations of chromosomes. The idea that the species is divided into two groups; males and females, is a political fabrication.

Sex and gender were categories invented by one powerful group in order to control the other. People with penises invented the categories man and women in order to control, dominate and exploit those without penises, as well as each other.

Still today thousands of years later babies are assigned a gender at birth based on the same criteria in the interests of reproducing male supremacy.

When people express and determine their identities autonomous of (and in opposition to) the logic of male supremacy it is a resistance to the logic that says people with penises should control, dominate and exploit those without. As such, anyone who isn't a bellend should stand in solidarity alongside queer and trans folk. Most men won't because it challenges their power as men - they will attack and de-legitimise because it is by preserving the categories 'man' and 'woman' (as determined by genitals) that they preserve the basis of their privilege.

I'm a male geek, I'm nothing like a male sports fan. I have more in common with female geeks.

"You - who I oppress and exploit and benefit at the expense of - I am just like you." Arrogant sod.
EREP IS DEAD LABOUR AND DEAD TIME - LIFE IS ELSEWHERE
-------->DESTROY THAT WHICH DESTROYS YOU<--------

Sexagenarian

  • Grumpy Old F@rt
  • Posts: 756
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2014, 09:32:38 am »
About gender: there is a lot between male and female (not only XXY and other genetic variations on the X/Y things but other genetics are important to for your gender and sex (or other words with about the same meaning).

It's an important point that actually lots of people don't fit the male and female categories that supposedly exist in biology. There are various combinations of chromosomes. The idea that the species is divided into two groups; males and females, is a political fabrication.

Sex and gender were categories invented by one powerful group in order to control the other. People with penises invented the categories man and women in order to control, dominate and exploit those without penises, as well as each other.

Still today thousands of years later babies are assigned a gender at birth based on the same criteria in the interests of reproducing male supremacy.

When people express and determine their identities autonomous of (and in opposition to) the logic of male supremacy it is a resistance to the logic that says people with penises should control, dominate and exploit those without. As such, anyone who isn't a bellend should stand in solidarity alongside queer and trans folk. Most men won't because it challenges their power as men - they will attack and de-legitimise because it is by preserving the categories 'man' and 'woman' (as determined by genitals) that they preserve the basis of their privilege.

I'm a male geek, I'm nothing like a male sports fan. I have more in common with female geeks.

"You - who I oppress and exploit and benefit at the expense of - I am just like you." Arrogant sod.

More politically correct claptrap to try to force the new "normal" onto people.

The only valid argument is one that involves reproduction, anything that takes this out of the equation is simply eliminated by nature.

Diakun

  • Hikikomori
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  • Posts: 13868
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2014, 09:54:15 am »
you are not opposed because of this political correctness you keep whining at, you are opposed because you are a vile hateful person.
humans have the power to transcend nature and we are at the point where "natural" reproduction is hardly nessesary for the survival of the species
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
I've got a picture of diakun and his dick
he can easily make people ashamed of how small they are, cause his is big
need to know anything else?

Iain Keers

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 12057
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2014, 11:58:43 am »
Refusing to give people the chance to define themselves as they like is the oldest and most common form of oppression.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2014, 12:51:40 pm »

Diakun

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #56 on: August 25, 2014, 12:56:49 pm »
wtf does that even mean
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
I've got a picture of diakun and his dick
he can easily make people ashamed of how small they are, cause his is big
need to know anything else?

Sexagenarian

  • Grumpy Old F@rt
  • Posts: 756
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2014, 01:05:05 pm »
we are at the point where "natural" reproduction is hardly nessesary for the survival of the species

For now, but one drug resistant bug and our cosy protected society is no more, or maybe the current scare about artificial intelligence will prove to be true. At that point the only way to survive as a species is sexual reproduction

As far as I'm concerned people can call themselves what they want, even mutilate the genitals they were born with, but it doesn't change the facts and, no matter how hard people shout to proclaim a new "normal", in a hundred years unless they reproduce their arguments will be irrelevant

Wayne

  • Pretty much the most badass eUKer...
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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2014, 01:06:24 pm »
it means shut the flower up and get on with your life...





Sam010

  • Party - PCP
  • Posts: 134
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2014, 01:07:20 pm »

The only valid argument is one that involves reproduction, anything that takes this out of the equation is simply eliminated by nature.


In which case now your penis can't stand to attention and your wife (assumption made you have a wife, apologies if not) is barren as the Mojave what purpose do yo think you serve?

 

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