Author Topic: The Bu****t voting System  (Read 2977 times)

Butjam

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2015, 12:23:30 am »
With Digby on fear over the EU referendum. Would've loved for the AV one to pass when it did but it feels like they didn't bother getting people to care about it
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Diakun

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2015, 04:29:27 pm »
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
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Niemand

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2015, 07:01:02 am »
Every political system has it weak and his strong points. The UK system is performing very well when the population is divided in two parts. Nowadays in many Western nations the divide isn't between two political forces any more (like the left against the right or conservative against progressive), but between more and more forces regardless the political system.
In modern society the nation itself became more important than the region. People are moving a lot, so a big part of the population isn't that much based in a region.

A mixture between regional and national you have in Germany (you have two votes, one for a party, one for a person, the total members in parliament do change because some are elected extra because the personal votes). France use two rounds for their regional elected ones when in the first round no one got a majority in a region. In the second round only the two with the most votes can stand.

There are many other interesting election systems, however it depends on the situation and the culture what is seen as the best. What I think is most important in a democratic system that the population do think it is a good system, whatever the system.
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BaskB

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2015, 09:28:13 am »
The biggest issue I think we will ever have is how to reform it....

It benefits Cons/Labour so they are hardly going to say oh lets reform the system so we lose out more...

However the demand for change does seem to be getting louder.
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ApronChef

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2015, 09:36:34 am »
The biggest issue I think we will ever have is how to reform it....

It benefits Cons/Labour so they are hardly going to say oh lets reform the system so we lose out more...

However the demand for change does seem to be getting louder.

Tories are stilling plodding along with their redraw city constituency boundaries to destroy Labour seats idea. I personally think if a reform isn't put through, the whole of UK politics is gunna become a violent battleground of government versus the public and I don't think the UK is anywhere near prepared for a 'mild modern revolution'.

Diakun

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2015, 02:06:50 pm »
i think PR is the best and most democratic system, and germany proves it works
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
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Prof Moriarty

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2015, 02:44:16 pm »
Why is a majority Government a good thing? Frankly, I think better Governments come out of minorities.
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Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2015, 05:01:01 pm »
Why is a majority Government a good thing? Frankly, I think better Governments come out of minorities.

Concept of 'mandate' and the value of manifestos when coalition agreements result in compromise anyway.

But as I said, this is somewhat of an already existing problem in the party politics.
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Talon Karrde

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2015, 09:55:42 pm »
Why is a majority Government a good thing? Frankly, I think better Governments come out of minorities.

The ability to get shit done, mostly on a foreign affairs stage. I like the fact that if Cameron promised NATO support for some venture, he would be reasonably assured of being able to pass a vote through the commons to back himself up, unlike Syria. It gives us more soft power worldwide.

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dougal4chaos

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2015, 10:40:03 am »
the current system works when you only have 2 main parties.

a lot of people only voted conservative because they were scared that labour would win if they voted UKIP.

conservative isnt the best option for the country but is obviously a much better option than labour winning
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ApronChef

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2015, 10:32:49 am »
the current system works when you only have 2 main parties.

a lot of people only voted conservative because they were scared that labour would win if they voted UKIP.

conservative isnt the best option for the country but is obviously a much better option than labour winning

But a tory gov isn't the better of anything, Cameron has led a government that statistically is one of the most unjust and economically unstable terms in our entire history.

Iain Keers

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2015, 04:24:38 pm »
PR creates coalitions, and coalitions suck.

Case in point: look how betrayed libdems felt when they voted libdem and ended up with their vote propping up a tory government.

That would be every single election with PR. You would never get what you vote for.
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LongShotzZ

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2015, 07:11:41 pm »
I don't want this country to end up like Israel (five party coalition at one point), so that's a no to PR from me.
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Diakun

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2015, 08:11:31 pm »
most of the people never get what they vote for anyway, thus the whole point then is representation, which PR actually bothers giving.

fptp only mostly gives a majority because its a fundamentally broken and undemocratic system. move to china if you love a one party state so much.

PR system will help to prevent a majority gov and thus a balance of power is maintained moreso , this is actually a good thing [shocked.gif]
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
I've got a picture of diakun and his dick
he can easily make people ashamed of how small they are, cause his is big
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Stianoux

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Re: The Bu****t voting System
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2015, 11:27:57 am »
Coalitions are more vulnerable and have weaker foundations, but one helpful thing it does from what I've seen in my own country is that it forces more parties to work together to achieve results. It also allows the smaller parties to realize some of the things they want to do, because the other partners of the coalition are dependent on their support.

Sometimes coalitions work out, sometimes they don't. It depends on a lot of things, like how willing they are to cooperate with each other and how similar their viewpoints are on the matters that are important to them.

Here we have at least 7 parties in parliament at all times, and both the left-wing and the right-wing are forced to make coalitions and work together in order to form any viable government. I believe this kind of system is beneficial for the well-being of the parliamentary system as a whole, but not so much for the different political parties individually.

 

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