Author Topic: How the forums are supposed to work  (Read 2741 times)

Kumnaa

  • Kumnaa
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How the forums are supposed to work
« on: January 16, 2013, 04:18:01 pm »
Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening/Night Ladies and Gents,

Modding

There have been a lot of arguments and accusations of poor modding over the last few weeks/months, a good deal of it about Public Discussions. I think some of this has come from assumptions made by both sides on who does what. This is how the sections of the forum have been setup and how they're looked after:

Political Forums

Party forums have and always will be looked after by the parties themselves. The gmods have no access here unless they are a member of that party and can only mod if they've been added to the relevant group.

Government forums have, for the last couple of years that I can remember, and hopefully always will be looked after be the MoLA (or equivalent). The gmods have in the past looked after  it but accusations of political bias (as we're seeing now) quickly turned it into a cesspit. We can go back to using the gmods but that really isn't a good idea! The government can then control their forums as they wish (within the rules of the forum). If lots of people don't like it they can vote in a new CP and government next term!

Private Forums

Gmods have no access to these unless they are a member of the group. The group that owns the forum is in charge of running it properly.

Everywhere else

Everywhere else is under the watchful eyes of the gmods.

Admins have access to everything so they can jump in on disputes. I've split the 'eUK' forums into two groups so it's clear which falls under which jurisdiction.

Admin Restructuring

Admins

As you are all hopefully aware, after our discussions with BigAnt about the state of the government / admin relationship, we removed all the admins we had in place. Frerk was then reappointed as admin as he is comparatively neutral. He will hopefully soon be joined by another admin once he decides who that should be.

Gmods

In the meeting with BigAnt, replacing the gmods was discussed but I put this off until after the peace summit a few weeks ago. Speaking with Frerk over the following week I came to the conclusion that replacing the gmods wasn't sensible. Instead we'd approach complaints about individual gmods as they came, if we found a gmod was infact modding based on political affiliation then we would remove them.

Also discussed in the meeting was the method of replacing gmods. Complaints were raised that the gmods were from the same party or two, it was suggested that as a gmod leaves, their replacement is discussed / voted on by the leaders of the main parties to try and avoid an unbalanced modding team. We've not worked out exactly how this will be done but we'll come to that when we need to.

Hopefully that's cleared up a few things.

Love,

Kumnaa
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N W G

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Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2013, 07:04:37 pm »
Quote
Also discussed in the meeting was the method of replacing gmods. Complaints were raised that the gmods were from the same party or two, it was suggested that as a gmod leaves, their replacement is discussed / voted on by the leaders of the main parties to try and avoid an unbalanced modding team

not sure i like the idear of people in power voting for who they want to hold power. After all isnt that exactly what people have been arguing about. About the fact those in power are able to keep controlling it??

Surely it makes sense that the best person suited gets the job and not just the person thats the most popular at the time or open yourself to a situation in which partys can accuse other parties of ganging together to score points over other partys ?

The rest of it is just common sense but thanks for updating us all
Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:30:39 pm
Quote from: "Minecrafting Instead"

Goku posting on these forums again is not on the table (nor will it ever be)

RodneyMcKay

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Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2013, 07:11:07 pm »
"their replacement is discussed / voted on by the leaders of the main parties"

This sounds horrible.


Admiral Rodney McKay DSO
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ex-ESO Party President
Admiral of the fleet (Ret.

Wayne

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Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2013, 07:11:51 pm »
Make me gMod, problem solved...





Kumnaa

  • Kumnaa
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Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2013, 07:35:48 pm »
Quote from: "RodneyMcKay"
"their replacement is discussed / voted on by the leaders of the main parties"

This sounds horrible.

Like I said that's up in the air at the moment as there are many ways that could be terrible. We just need a system that stops us appointing mods from just one party accidentally or not.

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Wayne

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Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2013, 07:39:38 pm »
Maybe get eRep admin to abolish political parties? problem solved...





Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2013, 07:47:45 pm »
Quote from: "WayneKerr"
Maybe get eRep admin to abolish political parties? problem solved...
That would fix too much, they'd never do it


Gav Miller

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Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2013, 07:59:06 pm »
Quote from: "Kumnaa"
Complaints were raised that the gmods were from the same party or two, it was suggested that as a gmod leaves, their replacement is discussed / voted on by the leaders of the main parties to try and avoid an unbalanced modding team.

3/10. Would not read again. Obvious troll is obvious.
Quote
<Wayne> wtf is dickcops
<Betafoxtrot> It's someone who polices dicks apparently
<GavMiller> your dream job, eh Betafoxtrot?
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Iain Keers

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Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2013, 08:43:44 pm »
Quote from: "Kumnaa"
Complaints were raised that the gmods were from the same party or two

Would that be...the parties that use and promote the forums?

Could it be that some parties have more older, trusted citizens who are forum active than others?

:o
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2013, 09:49:01 pm »
There has always been the central in game community which is fairly loose and weak then a strong forum community orbiting and controlling it. These communities are not compatible. Putting content on the forums takes it out of the game and vice versa.

One group of parties belives in getting everything on the forums and having everything nice and ordered as a result, the drawback is corruption where a small group of players have disproportionate influence because of personal relationships and favours/competance displayed in the past.

One group of parties belives in getting everything in game and getting more people into the game by making it have more content, also fixing the issues with the first system(above). The drawback is that this second group of players doesn't have a lot of experience and make mistakes.

So we have two groups enraged at each other for their flaws. Forum players are not going to give up their status and really don't understand what they are doing wrong. The in game players are not going to let such people be in charge and so will try to rule themselves without experience. So the community is broken beyond repair.




How can we fix it?

Forum players need to accept that they must re earn their status every so often by doing something. Some of you did a bad job the first time around and will be exposed, others did a good job and will be kept. Did you know that I consider Iain Keers to be our best ever CP? So get rid of the mods and the in jokes... for now. Until they earn it.

In game players need to accept that some of the forum people are actually quite good at what they do and should be in charge of things with apprentices.
So let someone from on old party take CP until people are trained up and have a forum "MoLA" (with an in game "MoComms")... for now. Personally I am really open to discussion and negotiation but nobody ever comes to me with ideas.

Once that is done parties need to be more willing to support each other and not stick to blocs. Did you know that I was considering supporting ESO over UKPP in December but early communciation just stopped abruptly? Some coordinated sacrifice on both sides and maybe, just maybe, the issues will stop and you'll get UKRP Forum Mods and UKPP Presidents happily co oexisting and not even taking party or activity area into account.






What absolutly needs to stop is the blind 100% hatred and bias against one "side". Sorry but I did a damned professional job in December and in my first few days of posts here, that was been grinded away and now I'm getting pissed off and being sarcastic and hateful sometimes like the rest. Have some awareness of what is happening.

Blue And Evil

  • Posts: 617
Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 10:31:25 pm »
Quote from: "Sage Goku"
the drawback is corruption where a small group of players have disproportionate influence because of personal relationships and favours/competance displayed in the past.
Firstly, how is appointing people with a record of competence a bad thing?

Quote from: "Sage Goku"
What absolutly needs to stop is the blind 100% hatred and bias against one "side".
Secondly, yes, this absolutely needs to stop, but it's a two way street. It's hilarious how often I see someone claiming to reach out and then referring to the 'evil' [INSERT OPPOSITE PARTY HERE] in the next sentance.

Thirdly, I was once offered GMod position. I'd take it up now if offered again, and I wouldn't be biased at all.
In-game: Blue And Evil


<~BlueAndEvil> I wasn't expecting them to derp
<&Betafoxtrot> Always expect the derp

Struggle Snuggles

  • Posts: 6230
Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2013, 01:01:15 am »
Thanks cumnye you the best

Sir Humphrey Appleby

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Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2013, 02:21:40 am »
These 'divisions' are entirely self-constructed and can thus be removed at an accord. As for claiming the forums are taking away activity from the game - the forums are a supplement to the game and, far from ‘removing content from the game’, generate a lot of it from discussion and action. To say these things are not compatible is deliberately misleading – the fact others from the supposedly ‘anti-forum’ group post here is evidence against it. The fact remains a lot of the forum activity seen here isn’t necessarily about forum use itself but the actions taken by this government ig; from dodgy ministers, poor finances and a lack of war planning. But this is hardly a 'them v us' issue as a lot of the ministers involved are from a wide range of political backgrounds

People are not trying to dispute who is in charge, they are asking those who are in charge (the government of the day) to take responsibility for the actions of, believe it or not, the government (which they are to an extent doing). Whether you like it or not, a lot of the debate & discussion will continue on this forum and people from a variety of parties, including your own, will probably continue to use it regardless of what we say. Until we actually see instances of unfair modding or corruption, complaints of inequality are groundless. Mods are punished for breaking the rules like anyone else (if not more so, they are supposed to set an example).

The community is not broken beyond repair – there is no real set model to follow and it’s up to all of us to at least try and get on for the better of the nation rather than capitalise on differences of play. There can be a certain level of civility between different areas of the community to make it worth staying in; and it is the responsibility of party leaders to try and allow this accord of civility to exist.
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Iain Keers

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Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2013, 09:02:20 am »
Ingame functions are far too limited to facilitate the level of communication necessary for proper organisation. All MMOs have this problem pretty much blood and it's why IRC and forums are so important. The idea that moving stuff Ingame helps new players isn't logical. Active new players can easily access forums. Saying the political forums can be hostile is like saying rain can be wet. Obviously people are going to argue passionately in politics. Shielding new players from opposing views is just coddling them and is in my opinion the major cause of division.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2013, 12:33:07 pm »
Iain brings up a pretty good point which would lead me on to further - by ignoring the best tools for communication you not only cut people away from opposing views which removes the point of a political game, you also remove them from the possibility of finding further like-minded people who will keep new people happy and in the game and national team longer.

Perhaps that's exactly what some people are scared of?

edit: inb4 "LLC wants a divide and people to argue!" if people had more experience of discussing and agreeing/disagreeing without making it personal we'd have less problems.


jamesw

  • Posts: 5751
Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2013, 03:25:56 pm »
Hi, I will vote no on any gmod votes that I have access or power to vote on, until such a ridiculous system is removed (if you decide to pick gmods that way)

Wayne

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Re: How the forums are supposed to work
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2013, 03:44:17 pm »
Quote from: "Iain Keers"
Shielding new players from opposing views is just coddling them and is in my opinion the major cause of division.

It's very rare that new players get involved which the whole 'divide' issue, and its even rarer for them to say/do something to inflame the situation more.  The whole forum debate is nothing more then a face for the true reasons we have such a divide.  Ego's and personalities are the REAL reason.  Arguments that stretch back many moons, often before the majority of the nation was even born, are the reasons we can never play nice.  It's the reason why we will never be able to play nice unless those older players with the chips on there shoulders finally bury hatchets and let bygones be bygones.

Raising players in such environments is damaging the nation as a whole.  People often make 'enemies' simply for the choice of party.  Elisa Vorimberg, a returning player was quick to notice and remark about it, 'Despite making a few enemies for joining the UKPP', and the sad thing is this hasn't changed from when I first started and is applicable to all parties.  Then to make matters worse the vilification is spreading to the one arena we should be united in, our military.