Author Topic: Questionnaire discussion  (Read 5652 times)

Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar

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  • Posts: 13994
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2013, 02:49:23 pm »
Dear Mr. Carlini,

Quote from: "carlini8"
1 Log into the game, look at the articles. Maybe look at the lack of new players on the forum. I don't need to go out and do a survey for something that is right in everyone's (except apparently yours) faces
2 Other possibilities? The statement we are talking about is that people are not using the forums because of the stupid political situation we have in this eCountry.
3 Yes - That is the needed evidence which you require I presume, as I said, you just need to log in to see it. There was an attempt in the first of jamesw's double term but that went south and changed from encouraging the "other side" to give it a go to a campaign of "flower the forums" - That is an answer to NE/UKPP, as for TUP, demoting Keers Talon and Dan, ie TUP, probably had something to do with that.
4 I honestly couldn't care less. I quit any sort of stupid party politics this game has to offer after I saw Lily clutch to power as hard as she could in ESO. People are always fairer to their friends and harder on people they don't like, that is evident everywhere.
5 When you joined you were encouraged to join the forums. You were told, by at least a handful of people, that the forums would be useful and help you progress in the game. The only barrier at that point was the bother of logging into the forums. When I started, everyone told me the same. As far as I am aware, and I read pretty much all of the ingame media, no one was actively discouraging it in articles. Now, if you join NE or UKPP for the off you are not going to join the forums at all, end of. If you join ESO you might and then you will probably discuss butterflies and fairy's in the discussion threads, TUP probably depends on the PP. I think UKRP push for it for their other games on their private sections. I pushed for Legion members to join a while back just so we could have another area to plan and try to keep members active in the Legion section. Sadly I wouldn't do that anymore. If they venture anywhere other than the Legion subsection they are likely to see flaming and put them off the game. If they put an idea out there they are likely to be flamed themselves for their "newbish-ness". These forums are quite simply no longer friendly and politics is the reason why.
6 I don't actually know how long you have had your modship. I just know you didn't used to be a Mod and you didn't used to post like this. Just looks like you are trying to act all professional because you are a Mod instead of just sitting down and having a conversation.

1: What do these apparent articles contain that so obviously set out that the reason there are few relative people using the forum is because of how they're moderated? All I'm asking is how that conclusion is reached and so far nobody has actually been able to answer the question.


2: No it's not, I want to know why people think that the the problem of people not using the forums is outrightly because of how they're moderated - or rather that they're moderated too harshly.


3: Well then that's obviously a further problem, and one where any issues with how things are dealt with should be taken up with Kumnaa. The rest just seems a bit silly to be taken this seriously, to be quite honest, and it's not exactly a decent way to go about trying to improve things. The demoting of "TUP" I assume wasn't anything to do with actually how moderation is done, though? Surely they're seperate issues.


4: Well, I'm not going to make a case that says otherwise, but I was under the impression there's a lot of neutrality in moderation (having experienced both ends of it). From my own experience within the first week I banned a BBHer. There is, howeverly, clearly a problem somewhere with the communication between both moderators (in their enforcement) and communication between moderators and forum users. The amount of drama that can occur just from infractions is quite absurd, and in situations where something should be reviewed or even changed it's gone about in completely the wrong way. For instance, a user being banned and they think that the infraction that triggered it was unfair. Rather than rant on IRC, swear a lot and complain about the moderation, the steps instead should be to talk to the moderators, admins or Kumnaa (depending on what level you feel it was unfairly given). This is and always has been a bit of a problem.


5: That all seems a complete shame, then - especially considering how easy it would actually be for everyone to drop their grudges and go about trying to solve problems in a proper way. By the impact individuals have over their respective parties any individual actions and disputes have obvious effects on the community as a whole, and since a lot of the posted content of the forum isn't about party politics (and a decent amount isn't about in-game politics itself) this is obviously just a really terrible situation to be in. I would have thought that if anywhere, the forums are the place to leave your drama and quarrels at the door and just communicate with people you share an interest in the game with.


6: I've been formatting posts like this before I became a mod, it became a challenge from Bob after a day or so of a lot of BBH trying to keep it up. As far as I'm aware I'm the only one who still does it with every post, but it actually has its merits as a way of posting.

Sincerely,
Digby
HRH Pope Digby V, Prince of Hanover, KC, KG, KP, GBE, OGS, FRSL, BGD, PhD
Chancellor of BBH Open University


Iain Keers

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 12057
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2013, 03:30:36 pm »
Let me explain what is happening here. A person is raising grievances and explaining where the problems are coming from. A mod is telling them they are wrong.

This is what is wrong with the forums. There's no way I'd advertise this place to new players, let alone host discussion here.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2013, 03:41:08 pm »
Dear Mr. Keers,

I'm not telling anyone that they're wrong, I'm commenting and asking for substance to the idea that's being put forward that the reason for the low forum population is the harshness of moderation.

If you don't like this particular discussion then I suggest you don't take part in it and everyone concerned will be content, but continuing to post irrelevancies after I asked you to substantiate an argument is not what I would personally call constructive. I really don't understand what possible problem you have with me asking how something is correlated or discussing the issues that have been raised.

Sincerely,
Digby
HRH Pope Digby V, Prince of Hanover, KC, KG, KP, GBE, OGS, FRSL, BGD, PhD
Chancellor of BBH Open University


N W G

  • President
  • Posts: 650
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2013, 03:55:29 pm »
i think to be fair all this has shown is how quick and easy it is to loose touch with a game you havent played in a while.

Does that have any relation to being a mod on a forums ??? No i dont think it does.

However it does mean its that much harder for them to interact and take part in discussions relating to the game
Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:30:39 pm
Quote from: "Minecrafting Instead"

Goku posting on these forums again is not on the table (nor will it ever be)

Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2013, 04:12:32 pm »
Basically everyone has posted almost exactly the same feedback in the questionnaire, including a moderator, people who usually hate and campaign against each other and party presidents who represent even more people. The exception is what appear to be two joke replies.

Mainly one person disagrees and thinks that everyone else is the problem. Am I being cynical or would I be right in thinking that one guy is going to get his own way?

Iain Keers

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 12057
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2013, 04:55:46 pm »
Dear Mr Digby,

Telling people that if they disagree with you they should leave is painfully stupid for a forum which is losing members. However it is especially stupid when essentially it is not me disagreeing with you, it is everyone disagreeing with you. As the minority, I suggest it is you who should kindly crawl back into the cesspit of BBH where you belong.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2013, 04:59:32 pm »
Dear Mr. Keers,

you are not disagreeing with me, you are simply responding to me in a very hostile way without answering the question that I originally and since have repeatedly posed.

I'm also not telling anyone to leave, I simply said that if you're not going to take a discussion seriously and post as you have been when I'm trying to engage in a constructive manner and actually explore things then it's probably best if you don't post like you have been to me. That's not to say that I think or have said that you shouldn't post in the thread (I was talking about the particular discussion in here), or even actually that I'm telling you to not reply to me, I just think that both what and the way you've been posting is not helpful and has been unprovoked.

Sincerely,
Digby
HRH Pope Digby V, Prince of Hanover, KC, KG, KP, GBE, OGS, FRSL, BGD, PhD
Chancellor of BBH Open University


Frerk

  • Posts: 8338
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2013, 05:31:16 pm »
So let's say I'm writing new rules which are both clearer and more lenient, what would you guys(Goku, mostly) want included?
Former everything
Socialist UKRP echelon

Hermanos

Quote
<Iain_Keers> I LOVE YOU FRERK
<Iain_Keers> JESUS flower
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Talon Karrde

  • Party - TUP
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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2013, 05:39:33 pm »
Quote from: "Frerk"
So let's say I'm writing new rules which are both clearer and more lenient, what would you guys(Goku, mostly) want included?

Quote
• Multiple accounts will be permanently banned and information passed on to eRepublik admins.
• Posts containing nudity, pornography, offensive images or copyrighted content IN ANY FORM is not tolerated and may result in a permanent ban.
• Racism and otherwise offensive posting is not appropriate and will result in infraction points being added to your profile.
• Jokes about dead forum members or forum member's family are not permitted.
• The publishing of other people's private and/or personal information without consent will be investigated and may result in a permanent ban.

Quote
PM's may not be used to insult/abuse any members, such reports will be investigated and will result in infraction points being added to your user profile.

Quote
• Private sub-forums are to remain private, all leaks will be investigated, and may result in permanent bans. This includes passing on leaked posts.
• Private sub-forums are moderated by their creators/assigned people, these moderators are not full forum moderators, and must ensure the private sub-forums follow the general forum rules. Global moderators/admins may also moderate in any private forum they have access to.
• Do not mess with user group names or colours.

This is what I would keep from the current rules.

No porn, racism, or utter nastyness, no PM abuse, and the last part is just to make subforum use clear as it iis now.


Let me post entertaining images sometimes, let us follow the natural course of discussion within a thread, and I'll be a happy camper.

Tuus in terra servus, nuntius fui; officium perfeci



Butjam

  • Failed Messiah
  • Administrator
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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2013, 05:53:15 pm »
As a side note: What about a public infractions log? There's one in the moderator control panel so we would be able to see if mods were infracting without posting but sometimes people don't sew that people are getting infracted because you have to scroll up. For greater transparency, a post in this format

User infracted and number of points
Thread where post is located
The post in question
The reasoning

Appeals would be listed and commented on by the admin making the decision by quoting the post and listing their decision
Quote
[20:04] <&butjam> .seen TheMessiah
[20:04] <&fapfire> Looking for yourself, eh butjam?

Quote from: RodneyMcKay
Can we all just play the game and have a bit of fun please.
Angry butjam is best butjam.

FightAndProduce

  • Posts: 50
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2013, 05:56:52 pm »
Time for the nub to say something. :)

Before you read this,I probably have no clue about what I'm talking about.So don't take everything I say 100% seriously.

In my opinion,I think the reason why people do not join the forums/do not post is that this forum contains a lot of old players.As a new player,they feel intimidated to join or post on the forums (Including myself) The reason why I don't post is so I don't make a fool out of myself.

I've never found the forums to be a welcoming place,Therefore I don't log on much or post.

Just my input on the issue,I know it probably doesn't shed much light on the issue :S.
FightAndProduce - I don't fight much,and I don't produce anything.
If you see me online,that means I haven't forgot my password.

Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2013, 05:59:35 pm »
When I joined you could say what you wanted and 100% of the community used the forums for everything with no issues. Then moderators and admins started running for elections and on purpose or not people started getting banned for not agreeing with them, now I can't even explain what is happening it just seems like trolling to me.


Only give infractions and lock threads for:
1) Gore/Porn/Viruses etc the obvious stuff.
2) Continued arguments. Always give a warning to individuals AND the thread if a debate is turning into an argument and infractions/thread lock are being prepped if it continues.
3) Real spam. You know, multiple posts in a row (not double post), multiple offtopic in a row (talking about totally different subject nobody else is talking about, not slight tangents), pictures/one word posts in multiple threads (not a single post like this), mass necromancy (not a single thread). Delete these replies don't lock the topic.


You are giving spam infractions for things which are not spam. You are giving infractions for pointing this out. It is sucking the life out of this place. Stop doing it and the problems will go away. The very fact that you need to ask and that forum usage has gone from 100% of the community to 80% then 40% at best shows that you have no idea what you are doing.



EDIT: Look at the latest Questionnaire. You have an ex mod saying that lulz is ok (lists his friends) but trolling should be punished (lists people he doesn't like). They are the same thing! This is a clear example of the kind of bias we have had.

Arrlo

  • Posts: 1063
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2013, 06:08:40 pm »
Are you seriously asking how to moderate?
Our doubts are traitors,
And make us lose the good we oft might win
By fearing to attempt.

Lady Rainicorn

  • Sexiest Voice in the eUK
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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2013, 06:11:26 pm »
In fairness to people hear backseat modding infractions is something I never felt was necessary
Though this needs to be both an admin and a community effort

If we are to be more lax the community also needs to be more welcoming, put aside your petty squabbles and take the stick out ya asses. Lets have debate again not hate.
Founder of eUK Domestic eCricket League
Special Forces
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MBE
Ex-Speaker of the HoC


Frerk

  • Posts: 8338
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2013, 06:13:58 pm »
Quote from: "Thatcher"
Are you seriously asking how to moderate?
No, I'm asking people who constantly say we need to be less strict just how they want us to do so.
Former everything
Socialist UKRP echelon

Hermanos

Quote
<Iain_Keers> I LOVE YOU FRERK
<Iain_Keers> JESUS flower
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Arrlo

  • Posts: 1063
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2013, 06:16:12 pm »
Quote from: "Frerk"
Quote from: "Thatcher"
Are you seriously asking how to moderate?
No, I'm asking people who constantly say we need to be less strict just how they want us to do so.

That's exactly what I said Frerkypoo.
Our doubts are traitors,
And make us lose the good we oft might win
By fearing to attempt.

Dishmcds

  • Party - UKRP
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  • Look behind you
Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2013, 06:28:00 pm »
I would say that you'd probably want Digby to be a little less antagonising. I might not agree that this place is "horribad" or anything, but I realise I don't come here for hours on end anymore, and I usually don't post a ton. Keers, and hell, even Goku, could drive recruitment if they chose to. Antagonising them isn't going to solve the problem in this forum.

Now, if Keers introduces some form of legislation you don't like, antagonise the shit out of him. That's politics, not moderation.
[size=150]Former 7 time Erepublikan President[/size]

Hermanos

Gav Miller

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2013, 07:17:13 pm »
The Applaud/Smite feature I suggested could automatically ban a person for a certain number of days at a certain number of smites. So any continued shit posting could be combated by the forum community as a whole and not just the mod team.

Although this could easily be abused and unliked members of the community could find themselves being banned by the rest of the forum community quite a lot :3
Quote
<Wayne> wtf is dickcops
<Betafoxtrot> It's someone who polices dicks apparently
<GavMiller> your dream job, eh Betafoxtrot?
<Betafoxtrot> I'd never give up gloryhole bathroom attendent

Lady Rainicorn

  • Sexiest Voice in the eUK
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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2013, 07:21:09 pm »
Quote from: "Gav Miller"
The Applaud/Smite feature I suggested could automatically ban a person for a certain number of days at a certain number of smites. So any continued shit posting could be combated by the forum community as a whole and not just the mod team.

Although this could easily be abused and unliked members of the community could find themselves being banned by the rest of the forum community quite a lot :3

Yes which would be my problem with it, if after so long it flagged up to a mod maybe but thats about the same as reports just from many people rather than one
Founder of eUK Domestic eCricket League
Special Forces
FM #39
MBE
Ex-Speaker of the HoC


Smack

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Re: Questionnaire discussion
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2013, 11:40:37 pm »
Example.

I mean really, did that thread need to have a moderator warning on it? This is the sort of anal rule following that ruins a bit of fun people were having, without making some huge drastic thread derail. That thread would have been perfectly fine had it been left alone.

No offence intended Rob.


[23] <@Artela> "Smack, aspiring to climb up to gutter level since 2009, and failing due to the lack of a ladder long enough"