Author Topic: Gender and sex  (Read 11694 times)

Malkaiser

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2014, 12:43:36 am »
Thing is that three genders isn't enough:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT#Variants and this is only the entrance to the rabbithole.

Something which is basically "what genitals do you have so we can arrange toilet facilities" ends up being a convoluted description of how someone is 'special' and deserves individual attention for their specific sexual needs, and then rage if McDonalds doesn't understand what the flower you are talking about when you say that you are two spirits inhabiting one body and each is a different gender and don't hire you because you are insane.

I'm a male geek, I'm nothing like a male sports fan. I have more in common with female geeks. Do I need my own gender? No, I just add an extra word like "geek" to add detail. Most transgender and other situations can be solved this way without redefining what male/female means for 99.9% of people.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 12:46:04 am by Malkaiser »

Wayne

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2014, 01:15:12 am »
why do you take the bait Goku?





Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2014, 01:25:16 am »
>99.9% of people don't understand the difference between sex and gender

hue hue

I guess 99.9% also agree with everything you say, amiright?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 01:27:15 am by Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar »
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Sexagenarian

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2014, 08:24:33 am »
Ultimately all that matters is the preservation of the species. The fact that some people want to self mutilate is sad but in the long term is irrelevant.

Concerning the difference between the words used, gender is in your DNA, sex is something you do.

Iain Keers

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2014, 09:24:57 am »
I'm not picking a fight Goku, I just posted it here because the forums are dead and it's an interesting topic which was relevant to me at the time.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Malkaiser

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2014, 11:00:50 am »
I'm not picking a fight Goku, I just posted it here because the forums are dead and it's an interesting topic which was relevant to me at the time.
It's interesting for the handful of people this is actually an issue for.

It isn't interesting arguing semantics for everyone else and picking on people who have no idea what you are talking about to feel superior. Just trying to avoid another stunt like that beauty contest were Woldy or Jamesw or someone was entered to troll the devs.

kdoggroundtwo

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2014, 11:15:52 am »
I'm not picking a fight Goku, I just posted it here because the forums are dead and it's an interesting topic which was relevant to me at the time.
It's interesting for the handful of people this is actually an issue for.

It isn't interesting arguing semantics for everyone else and picking on people who have no idea what you are talking about to feel superior. Just trying to avoid another stunt like that beauty contest were Woldy or Jamesw or someone was entered to troll the devs.

It was butjam.

And this topic was not a troll topic it was created to discuss an issue what is very important to some people and maybe intresting to others.

You seem to have more of an issue with the fact keers posted it rather than the subject or why....

Niemand

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2014, 12:06:12 pm »
I had to use some reading to see whether I understand the English used here:
Sex and gender are indeed very related to each other, however the difference is not to difficult I think.
Sex: (chiefly with reference to people) sexual activity, including specifically sexual intercourse.
Gender: the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

Goku is right that three genders is not enough in all cases. When we get back to the topic we see that there are people that find it important to say that they can say about others what gender they have (even when it contradicts the gender the other say it has), there are others that say it is important to respect the other with the gender the other say it has.

It is not because it would be the truth, but because my belief or culture that I think we should respect others.
Going back to original question.

My view of it seems to be the opposite of goku's "If it doesn't effect me it's unimportant so stick to M/F"

in that it is "Who am I to tell other people how to identify"

While I don't understand all the transgender and 3rd gender and so on stuff it doesn't really effect other people.

And the hole form argument. Many now have a prefare not to say option so...
It seems I agree with kdoggroundtwo.


My answers on the three questions:

Is it entirely something defined by society and thus ourselves?
Not entirely, but the most important is how you feel it is.

Should biological factors have anything to do with gender?
The biological factors someone has influences the gender of a person a lot. However everyone should decide for himself/herself about their gender regardless the biological factors.

Should gender exist at all?
It will always exist, but it would be better when society would make it far less important and officials would stop asking about it.

I think it is an important issue. When we could make the gender issue better understandable more freedom would be possible and society could become less authoritarian.


Lady of the Lake

Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2014, 12:13:50 pm »
I'm not picking a fight Goku, I just posted it here because the forums are dead and it's an interesting topic which was relevant to me at the time.
It's interesting for the handful of people this is actually an issue for.

It isn't interesting arguing semantics for everyone else and picking on people who have no idea what you are talking about to feel superior. Just trying to avoid another stunt like that beauty contest were Woldy or Jamesw or someone was entered to troll the devs.

It was butjam.

And this topic was not a troll topic it was created to discuss an issue what is very important to some people and maybe intresting to others.

You seem to have more of an issue with the fact keers posted it rather than the subject or why....
Eh I post the exact same things everytime someone brings this up.

Right guys we obviously don't conform to the masculine play football, drink beer and have fights thing since we are online discussing issues. What gender are we!?

Iain Keers

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2014, 12:31:22 pm »
If you think masculinity is defined by "football yobbo" stereotype you've got some issues. Gender is a much more complicated issue than that. But the point is:

If someone defines as female, does their biological sex at birth prevent them from being recognised as female by others? Is it insulting to refer to someone who defines as female as a male because of their DNA at birth?

I would say it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2014, 12:47:06 pm »
If you think masculinity is defined by "football yobbo" stereotype you've got some issues.
Maybe we are the true males then and they are a different gender?



If someone defines as female, does their biological sex at birth prevent them from being recognised as female by others? Is it insulting to refer to someone who defines as female as a male because of their DNA at birth?

I would say it is.
I don't mind that happening, no. That should be the end of the issue though and a private thing beyond that.

The problem I see is then it has to be taken several steps further by people like yourself, telling people off for the slightest mistake on an issue which most people don't encounter and don't know how to deal with. Then you get the layer of crazy with people wanting new genders beyond two because they are sexist/homophobic themselves and don't fit in to their own prejudices.

I wouldn't call a trans person being called the wrong gender by mistake insulting, I'd call it an understandable misunderstanding. I've seen one person who looked like a balding midle aged male nerd in jeans and tshirt, with breasts and a little bit of eyeliner. Was that a "she" or a gay "he" with moobs. It's impossible to avoid offense sometimes if you define gender as offensive.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 12:49:33 pm by Malkaiser »

Iain Keers

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2014, 01:00:44 pm »
It's not offensive if you accidentally mistake someone for the wrong gender, I'm sure most people will be understanding. However if you then refer to them by the wrong gender after that on purpose, and say they shouldn't be offended because "they're not really a woman", that is offensive surely? The admins said this wasn't the case and it's ok.

Quote
The problem I see is then it has to be taken several steps further by people like yourself, telling people off for the slightest mistake on an issue which most people don't encounter and don't know how to deal with. Then you get the layer of crazy with people wanting new genders beyond two because they are sexist/homophobic themselves and don't fit in to their own prejudices.

I have no idea where this came from but doesn't seem to have any relation to anything I said.

"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Malkaiser

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2014, 01:17:39 pm »
You opened a topic about Gender right? I'm saying it's silly to start defining gender as it's own unique thing because then people start queuing up to form 5th and 6th genders.

Iain Keers

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2014, 01:48:56 pm »
That doesn't make any sense... there are two genders, male and female. They're social constructs. Are you saying that we have to define gender biologically? Your argument sounds like the whole "if gays can marry why can't we marry sheep" argument...
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Malkaiser

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2014, 01:56:27 pm »
That doesn't make any sense... there are two genders, male and female. They're social constructs. Are you saying that we have to define gender biologically? Your argument sounds like the whole "if gays can marry why can't we marry sheep" argument...
Wha... sheep?

There are more than two types of people though so how can you label everyone with two genders?

Iain Keers

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2014, 02:02:27 pm »
Because that's not what gender means obviously you doofus. If you like video games and I like drinking ten pints and pissing in a public fountain it doesn't mean I'm male and you're some third gender. Gender in the west at least is a binary.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Malkaiser

  • Posts: 7572
Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2014, 02:10:51 pm »
So what's the argument? Gender doesn't define you so this "social construct" isn't doing anything.

When people make comments like in your original post, they mean "you have a dick" because genitals are hilarious rather than making some kind of statement on how you should behave.

Ser Fartsalot

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2014, 10:29:16 am »
Is it entirely something defined by society and thus ourselves?

Gender already has few definitions. So depending which one you use, it can mean:

member of one or the other sex
being male of female

As a word, its definition can be changed by society. However, you being male or female, as a physical state of being, cannot be changed but only altered to a certain point.


Should biological factors have anything to do with gender?

Depends on the definition. If you use "gender" as being male or female then your gender depends on your biology. Otherwise, it doesn't have to.


Should gender exist at all?

The word will always exist. Other than that, I have no preference. .

Diakun

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2014, 12:08:55 pm »
the third gender is hideyoshi
its for anyone who wants to be something different

(id say people are whatever they think they are, flower what others think you are)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 12:10:42 pm by Diakun »
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
I've got a picture of diakun and his dick
he can easily make people ashamed of how small they are, cause his is big
need to know anything else?

Ser Fartsalot

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Re: Gender and sex
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2014, 01:03:19 pm »
(id say people are whatever they think they are,...)
Except most people are not what they think or claim to be...

 

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