Author Topic: Is liberalism now irrelevent?  (Read 1978 times)

Malkaiser

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Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« on: November 15, 2014, 09:59:46 am »
For the past 100 years there have been battles over equality in religion, then gender, then race, then the disabled and finally sexuality. The liberal left (rightly) won all of the arguments and it seems to me now that the battle has moved to implementation with a minority not complying or sterotypes still persisting because of grassroots issues (no women in politics, no black football managers).

So... what do all these social justice warriors do now they have won all of the arguments? How are they getting paid with nothing left to campaign for?

I have recently seen:
Feminists saying that hardcore type games shouldn't be made anymore because they don't appeal to women or people campaigning for the rights of paedophiles or schizophrenic multiple personalities.
Syria which respected the rights of women, minorities and religions totally destroyed because they didn't have political freedoms - now they have none of these freedoms.
People campaigning for the freedom of extremist Islamists to have the right to destroy their own rights.

I'm worried that there is going to be a backlash against this which may set back our hard won rights and stop their adoption in other countries. For example countries are now turning away from Democracy and freedom of religion was recently reported to be getting worse worldwide. What do we think?

Diakun

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2014, 10:13:31 am »
Most modern liberals are nothing more than fascists in disguise, they want the government to ban and censor everything that opposes their beliefs.

The uk is allready a totalitarian police state and no one seems to have noticed, because people love to make excuses and justifications for slowly chipping away freedoms untill we have none.
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
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Sir Humphrey Appleby

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2014, 01:01:42 pm »
death to all betrayers
<Guitah> not arguing with a Brit about tea is tha sensible thing to do :)
<Appleby> it is common knowledge it is pointless arguing with an addict :p
<Appleby> thus it is pointless arguing about tea with brits



ApronChef

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2014, 01:10:31 pm »
Personally, I believe liberalism hasn't been relevant for a long time now, its weak, and the people who claim to be liberal are disgusting excuses of lumps of fat and bones.

Diakun

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2014, 01:29:42 pm »
I admire the classical liberalism philosophy advocated during the enlightenment era. The founding fathers of america instituting it into the declaration of independance and the american constitution was a great moment for humanity.

The idea of universal inalienable and natural rights untouchable by government is an amazing thing, sadly this idea has been debauched and violated endlessly since, which makes me feel much animosity towards humanity for squandering such a gift out of fear and paranoia.
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
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ApronChef

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2014, 01:40:28 pm »
I admire the classical liberalism philosophy advocated during the enlightenment era. The founding fathers of america instituting it into the declaration of independance and the american constitution was a great moment for humanity.

The idea of universal inalienable and natural rights untouchable by government is an amazing thing, sadly this idea has been debauched and violated endlessly since, which makes me feel much animosity towards humanity for squandering such a gift out of fear and paranoia.

Its human fear not to be able to control something. As ultimately, all we want is to control everything.

Sexagenarian

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2014, 02:24:15 pm »
The modern liberal has much in common with Cromwell's Puritans

Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2014, 05:37:01 pm »
Politically: Neoconservatives will keep pushing it around the world, so I wouldn't worry.

Socially: They'll probably always have work to do.

Economically: Just wait until the next economic boom.

It's really fucken old stuff, though - but then again so are most other ideologies.
HRH Pope Digby V, Prince of Hanover, KC, KG, KP, GBE, OGS, FRSL, BGD, PhD
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Sir Humphrey Appleby

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2014, 09:28:46 pm »
The founding fathers of america instituting it into the declaration of independance and the american constitution was a great moment for humanity.

so long as you weren't white lower class/black/asian/actually p much everyone but the then v small middle class and upwards (and even then flower you) etc
<Guitah> not arguing with a Brit about tea is tha sensible thing to do :)
<Appleby> it is common knowledge it is pointless arguing with an addict :p
<Appleby> thus it is pointless arguing about tea with brits



Iain Keers

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2014, 06:42:47 am »
There is still quite a bit of sexism and racism in society, and although changing laws has helped to speed up getting rid of that, changing attitudes is a longer game.

Ever since the suffragettes there has been a classic demonisation of feminists by identifying the movement with its most radical elements.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Malkaiser

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2014, 11:13:31 am »
So how do you conbat the radical elements who hide behind the reasonable "equality for all" to say some pretty nasty things?

Diakun

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2014, 12:36:22 pm »
If feminists are really for gender equality why not just describe themselves as so, you cannot achieve equality by only fighting for the interests of one gender. And since (as far as i know) women now have equality before the law, these feminists just seem to be forcing their views on everyone else, and worse still trying to get the gov to enforce it.
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
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Sir Humphrey Appleby

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2014, 06:59:57 pm »
people who claim they're feminists trying to achieve gender-neutral politics are just egalitarians with silly tshirts
<Guitah> not arguing with a Brit about tea is tha sensible thing to do :)
<Appleby> it is common knowledge it is pointless arguing with an addict :p
<Appleby> thus it is pointless arguing about tea with brits



Iain Keers

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2014, 08:57:59 pm »
That's like saying because you want jobs in your area, you aren't supporting more jobs in another area. Just because you support one sectional interest, doesn't mean you don't morally support others too, it's just you can only campaign about one thing at a time. Besides, gender equality basically is feminism since men have almost every conceivable societal advantage.

And yes I do comment when retarded people say big boobs in video games characters is evil.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Niemand

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2014, 10:11:37 pm »
Indeed you cannot campaign at all things that are needed in one time.

This is why feminism is about equal rights.

Liberalism has so many parts to be viewed, I support it on many levels, I hate it when it is about wealth.

Social trade is needed very hard. So much more is possible when we see money only as a trade item and not as a power or wealth item.
http://www.socialtrade.org/
Lady of the Lake

Diakun

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2014, 12:38:29 am »
i find feminism to be generally synonymous those whiny cunts on loose women and other self-righteous asswipes

:ugeek:
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
I've got a picture of diakun and his dick
he can easily make people ashamed of how small they are, cause his is big
need to know anything else?

Joffrey Baratheon

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2014, 11:25:57 am »
So... what do all these social justice warriors do now

I'm worried that there is going to be a backlash

You answered your own question.

From my own personal experience I'd say that backlash is happening already, Younger people are far more conservative and reactionary now than they were when I was younger. And often say things that I actually find appalling. Of course this is totally subjective but as an example the other day I was doing some group study work and we got sidetracked as you do, during the conversation one of the people I felt had similar views to me actually stated (I kid you not) that Jews and Jehovah s witnesses only had themselves to blame for their treatment under the third Reich because they failed to drop their beliefs and integrate. And there was somewhat of a generational gap between those of us who grew up in the 90's and those who did so in the 00's.

Perhaps I find stuff I am opposed to in order to push back (especially online) but there seems to be a resurgence of sickening opinions and the idea that racist/sexist comments are 'just voicing what everyone is thinking'.


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Diakun

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2014, 01:34:48 pm »
So... what do all these social justice warriors do now

I'm worried that there is going to be a backlash

You answered your own question.

From my own personal experience I'd say that backlash is happening already, Younger people are far more conservative and reactionary now than they were when I was younger. And often say things that I actually find appalling. Of course this is totally subjective but as an example the other day I was doing some group study work and we got sidetracked as you do, during the conversation one of the people I felt had similar views to me actually stated (I kid you not) that Jews and Jehovah s witnesses only had themselves to blame for their treatment under the third Reich because they failed to drop their beliefs and integrate. And there was somewhat of a generational gap between those of us who grew up in the 90's and those who did so in the 00's.

Perhaps I find stuff I am opposed to in order to push back (especially online) but there seems to be a resurgence of sickening opinions and the idea that racist/sexist comments are 'just voicing what everyone is thinking'.

its much easier to say those things when all you've ever known is living in a peaceful democracy. its only when fascism comes bombing at your door and murdering your loved ones that you realise why evil should be fought and opposed
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
I've got a picture of diakun and his dick
he can easily make people ashamed of how small they are, cause his is big
need to know anything else?

Joffrey Baratheon

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2014, 05:55:32 pm »
And especially when you're a member of the dominant culture in the first place.


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johnobrow

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Re: Is liberalism now irrelevent?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2014, 06:25:05 pm »
The founding fathers of america instituting it into the declaration of independance and the american constitution was a great moment for humanity.

so long as you weren't white lower class/black/asian/actually p much everyone but the then v small middle class and upwards (and even then flower you) etc

This is the point I wanted to make. The American constitution was a great moment for propertied white men. We shouldn't forget that it was the basis on which a genocide was carried out.

Liberalism isn't opposed to racism and sexism - it never has been - at its core it has always been racist and sexist. It is not difficult, for example, to see the racism inherent in liberal and radical feminisms.

Since liberalism is racist and sexist, anti-racism and anti-sexism are not the domains of liberalism. That doesn't mean there aren't lots of liberals who call themselves feminists; David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg are all examples of liberals who have self-identified as feminist, but you'd have to be pretty naive to accept that at face value (the idea that any man can call himself a feminist deserves at least to be questioned). A genuine movement against white and male supremacy is possible - and indeed present - but it's not liberal.

So... what do all these social justice warriors do now

I'm worried that there is going to be a backlash

You answered your own question.

From my own personal experience I'd say that backlash is happening already, Younger people are far more conservative and reactionary now than they were when I was younger. And often say things that I actually find appalling. Of course this is totally subjective but as an example the other day I was doing some group study work and we got sidetracked as you do, during the conversation one of the people I felt had similar views to me actually stated (I kid you not) that Jews and Jehovah s witnesses only had themselves to blame for their treatment under the third Reich because they failed to drop their beliefs and integrate. And there was somewhat of a generational gap between those of us who grew up in the 90's and those who did so in the 00's.

Perhaps I find stuff I am opposed to in order to push back (especially online) but there seems to be a resurgence of sickening opinions and the idea that racist/sexist comments are 'just voicing what everyone is thinking'.

its much easier to say those things when all you've ever known is living in a peaceful democracy. its only when fascism comes bombing at your door and murdering your loved ones that you realise why evil should be fought and opposed

Democracies aren't peaceful. We live in an intensely violent society where violence is an ordinary part of everyday life - so normal in fact we usually don't even notice it. Borders; prisons; police, these are some of the more obvious examples, but also work, state bureaucracies, schools, the family, property generally, are all institutions reproduced through violence (and the threat of violence). Democracies are in a constant state of conflict where power defends itself from rivals and the dispossessed, those without power. That confrontation is almost always violent. Where democracy fails to contain that conflict, it inevitably gives way to totalitarianism and fascism. Fascism doesn't come "bombing at your door," the powerful readily invite it when democracy fails to preserve their privilege; that's been the case in virtually every example of existing fascism you care to mention. Democracy leads to fascism.
EREP IS DEAD LABOUR AND DEAD TIME - LIFE IS ELSEWHERE
-------->DESTROY THAT WHICH DESTROYS YOU<--------

 

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