eRepublik UK

Announcements => Suggestions => Archive => Topic started by: Butjam on April 17, 2013, 02:31:49 pm

Title: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 17, 2013, 02:31:49 pm
Discuss the questionnaire here, please be civil and keep on topic <3
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 17, 2013, 07:58:50 pm
Reaction to some replies:

Be less strict by a few people.
- Ok, will do.

Get less subforums by Ando Calrissian
- We usually remove any subforum that becomes redundant or inactive, but people continuously want forums back(Like the honours forums, not sure what happened to those?) so going back to a very small layout is going to be impossible. However if people find it annoying we can always try to get subforums out of sight or cut back on them earlier.

The team is a group of UKRP friends by Dan Moir
- Well, if you look at the 4 or so applicants for global moderator we got, it's going to be hard to have a broad selection of active and capable members. I agree that there's a shitload of UKRP members in the mod team, and I agree that we should pick people based on merits. However, that will either require more people to use the forums and apply, or for us to stop doing applications and just take whoever we want again. I think it's fair to say that it can be perceived as bias the way it is now, though, even if it s not.

Get the government to advertise the forums by Dan Moir
- I'll ask Jimbo if he wants to do this, but that's the best I can do, idem for Congress forums.

Increase the time that posts are shown for in new posts. by Dan Moir.
- Will do this.

Forum awards by Dan Moir.
- Got anything in mind? It would be nice if we could find a volunteer, or I can look into doing this later?

Send out a newsletter to the emails of everyone who ever registered on these forums who isn't banned. by Dan Moir.
- We already had parties on these forums do this, it yielded a few results. We will do a forum wide one again soon, but I don't want to spam people either.


I just picked some points from the responses, I'll reply to more of them later. Keep them coming!
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Big Ant on April 17, 2013, 09:07:42 pm
why didnt Dan do all that during his time as moderator... Just wondering dont shoot me xD
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Wayne on April 17, 2013, 10:16:41 pm
Porn/racism/anything illegal then clamp down hard and ban.  Anything else then meh, just let it go.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 18, 2013, 01:20:51 am
To follow on from Gav's, just a couple things

"Applaud/Smite users option (like eusa forum)

All admins/mods reviewed by Kumnaa every [insert number here] months?"

I like both of these

As to kdogg, he's incredibly active, he just doesn't post often because you guys won't talk about Persona 4 with him...
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: McAfee01 on April 18, 2013, 02:44:05 am
I'm not too sure why you're proposing a forum newsletter Dan, as you were one of the few people to shoot me down on this when I tried getting it off the ground when MoR actually still existed.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: jimbojoy on April 18, 2013, 04:14:44 am
Quote from: "McAfee01"
I'm not too sure why you're proposing a forum newsletter Dan, as you were one of the few people to shoot me down on this when I tried getting it off the ground when MoR actually still existed.

It did get done. Go team #antivirus
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: jimbojoy on April 18, 2013, 04:17:18 am
Quote from: "Frerk"

Be less strict by a few people.
- Ok, will do.

Get the government to advertise the forums by Dan Moir
- I'll ask Jimbo if he wants to do this, but that's the best I can do, idem for Congress forums.

1. I think the mods are far too lenient. Especially when compared to the old days. Maybe make amalgamate PD and General to make a "Play Nice" Area, and have a rapture for other general / off topic stuff, where people know what they're getting into.

2. Already in hand bruski.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 18, 2013, 10:23:30 am
Quote from: "WayneKerr"
Porn/racism/anything illegal then clamp down hard and ban.  Anything else then meh, just let it go.
I could agree to this.

Quote from: "jimbojoy"
2. Already in hand bruski.
Cool.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Gav Miller on April 18, 2013, 12:49:24 pm
Quote from: "Butjam"
As to kdogg, he's incredibly active, he just doesn't post often because you guys won't talk about Persona 4 with him...
I've talked to him about it! Maybe I just never see him infracting (which is a good thing :P)
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 18, 2013, 01:42:30 pm
Quote from: "Gav Miller"
Quote from: "Butjam"
As to kdogg, he's incredibly active, he just doesn't post often because you guys won't talk about Persona 4 with him...
I've talked to him about it! Maybe I just never see him infracting (which is a good thing :P)
I don't think Kdogg signs all of his edits. He's active though, and always gives his opinion about everything on the admin channel.

Also Keers we're not laughing about your post but actually taking it seriously, don't be so cynical please.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Dishmcds on April 18, 2013, 01:55:28 pm
Couldn't you just do what we used to and make all mod applications public? If they're going to be a mod, they shouldn't be afraid to post that, and I don't remember seeing the applications for some time now. That would cut down the perception of "lolUKRP" and actually make people realize that in all reality most people didn't apply for it.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Iain Keers on April 18, 2013, 01:58:36 pm
Sure you're not Frerk. After all the idea of you patronising others behind closed doors is so unbelievable. It's not the idea of criticism which irritates me, it's where people don't dare do it to my face.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Thomas765 on April 18, 2013, 02:08:34 pm
Quote from: "Dishmcds"
Couldn't you just do what we used to and make all mod applications public? If they're going to be a mod, they shouldn't be afraid to post that, and I don't remember seeing the applications for some time now. That would cut down the perception of "lolUKRP" and actually make people realize that in all reality most people didn't apply for it.

I suppose that could be an idea for the future. We only had six applications, two came in after we had discussed it, one was TUP, one was UKRP, one was a troll application and one was a non-party member. And we did all agree to Rob.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Smack on April 18, 2013, 02:49:58 pm
Quote from: "Butjam"
As to kdogg, he's incredibly active, he just doesn't post often because you guys won't talk about Persona 4 with him...

I think Kdogg is a good mod. He's a dick and I don't particularly get on with him, but he doesn't really care if you don't like him, and isn't biased.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Dan Moir on April 18, 2013, 06:54:40 pm
Quote from: "McAfee01"
I'm not too sure why you're proposing a forum newsletter Dan, as you were one of the few people to shoot me down on this when I tried getting it off the ground when MoR actually still existed.

That's not true at all.  I told you kumnaa didn't want to do it because it was a major pain in the arse for several reasons (such as spam filters, unsubscribe links, etc.).  I always thought it was a good idea and told you so.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Smack on April 18, 2013, 08:03:33 pm
Quote from: "Thomas765"
Quote from: "Dishmcds"
Couldn't you just do what we used to and make all mod applications public? If they're going to be a mod, they shouldn't be afraid to post that, and I don't remember seeing the applications for some time now. That would cut down the perception of "lolUKRP" and actually make people realize that in all reality most people didn't apply for it.

I suppose that could be an idea for the future. We only had six applications, two came in after we had discussed it, one was TUP, one was UKRP, one was a troll application and one was a non-party member. And we did all agree to Rob.

You saying my application was a troll? :(
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Wayne on April 19, 2013, 01:10:07 am
Quote from: "Smack"
Quote from: "Thomas765"
Quote from: "Dishmcds"
Couldn't you just do what we used to and make all mod applications public? If they're going to be a mod, they shouldn't be afraid to post that, and I don't remember seeing the applications for some time now. That would cut down the perception of "lolUKRP" and actually make people realize that in all reality most people didn't apply for it.

I suppose that could be an idea for the future. We only had six applications, two came in after we had discussed it, one was TUP, one was UKRP, one was a troll application and one was a non-party member. And we did all agree to Rob.

You saying my application was a troll? :(
Maybe it was mine...
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Iain Keers on April 19, 2013, 01:19:33 pm
P4 is a good game
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar on April 20, 2013, 07:44:59 pm
Quote from: "WayneKerr"
Porn/racism/anything illegal then clamp down hard and ban.  Anything else then meh, just let it go.

Dear Mr. Kerr,

this is a terrible idea.

From my experience, if a forum allows continued flaming and trolling for whatever reason then the community goes to shit and it constantly ruins threads. I, for one, don't want that to happen.

It is also a very unfair environment for some individuals.

Sincerely,
Digby
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Iain Keers on April 20, 2013, 09:38:38 pm
>Community goes to shit

Implying it hasn't already gone to shit? I mean look at it now compared to 2 years ago. Ingame is as vibrant as ever, this place is a fetid backwater.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar on April 20, 2013, 10:11:22 pm
Dear Mr. Keers,

but it hasn't. If what Mr. Kerr suggested was enacted then (from what activity there is) the forum would very likely turn into both:

a) a dumping ground for memes and shit that people find elsewhere on the internet (reddit etc.) with very little proper communication and an engaging forum experience, and
b) a place festered with baiting, trolling and flame wars where either the moderation altogether ignores it or even is involved (in some circumstances like where it's nearly all vs. one for whatever reason).

These contribute to the forum being even less active as people seek communication through different, more convenient and better means so essentially all that's left is something that actually resembles a fetid backwater. I've noticed you use a lot of hyperbole in your assessment of the forums, particularly in relation to the moderation and its effect. Personally I find almost all of what you (and what a few others) suggest on this matter to be largely inaccurate.

The non-basic (ie website-related) rules of course exist as something that can be adjusted, and the moderators are in almost constant communication so that punishments and enforcements can be changed in terms of what is and isn't accepted - there is a balance that exists, and although obviously it is predominantly around what a narrower amount of individuals say (you usually address this group as "Frerk" but all the admins) the moderation essentially does work.

There is nothing I can see (or have seen in the past, for that matter) that would suggest the moderation and the rules have impacted in any significant way on the amount of new registers and retention of people. Furthermore, this idea that the moderation is faulty and is counter-productive and the conclusion that it's the reason that the forum is more inactive than in the past isn't particularly explored. I've come to notice that it's consistently championed by people who hold banners - for all sorts of reasons - that things should be done differently and even people who hold grudges for whatever reason. That's fine and it doesn't really bother me that much, and this obviously isn't explicitly directed at you, but I would strongly suggest that you and others explore the past of the forum more and think a lot more deeply as to the causes of inactivity on the forum.

I may well be wrong, although I doubt that I am, but I think that simply asserting that inactivity is due to faulty moderation or something along the lines of "there's something wrong with how the forums work because the game is more active" without also thinking as much of other factors and accepting potential fallibility of this assessment is a very stubborn and actually not particularly constructive way of going about helping the situation.

This is, despite what some people might assert, not some unshakeable regime where things are never changed and input is never used or valued. It is obviously not in any of our interests, as a moderating team, if communication is stifled and people leave or choose not to stay and use the forums regularly. Whatever your opinion on the admins or moderators, you must accept that basic fact; what we do is in a constant effort to maintain the health of both the forum and its sense of community. We and our judgements are obviously not infallible and are thought through and checked and in the long-term moderating goes through change and evolution, but I really fail to see how people could blame the exact opposite of what we put constant effort into achieving on our actions as though we or, often specifically, the admins are either complete fools or mad autocrats.

Sincerely,
Digby
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Iain Keers on April 20, 2013, 11:21:27 pm
Dear Mr Digby,

As you no longer play erepublik, which coincidentally is what this forum is for, I will forgive you for your ignorant comments. As TUP has heavily invested it's time and effort into these forums, I have not noticed the problem so much as many. Yet it exists. So much as half of the UK have no interest whatsoever due merely to the management of the forum and it's rules. Of the remaining half, few bother with the forums as a means of government or even political discussion. The cabinet forum is dead. PD is dead. Most other government forums have been removed. When I was CP the first time there were dozens of threads in cabinet, and in individual sub forums for each ministry. The second time there were none.

These forums have failed. Denying it repeatedly is foolish. Show me statistics on posts per day over the past 4 years and you will see nothing but persistent decline. In fact they would be dead altogether if not propped up by BBH, which frankly is nice but nothing to do with the actual game. Kumnaa does not pay for BBH.

Iain
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar on April 20, 2013, 11:27:34 pm
Dear Mr. Keers,

I would like to see your evidence for the following claim (and an explanation as to how you came to the conclusion):

Quote from: "Iain Keers"
So much as half of the UK have no interest whatsoever due merely to the management of the forum and it's rules.

Sincerely,
Digby
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: N W G on April 21, 2013, 01:31:32 am
Quote from: "Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar"
Dear Mr. Keers,

I would like to see your evidence for the following claim (and an explanation as to how you came to the conclusion):

Quote from: "Iain Keers"
So much as half of the UK have no interest whatsoever due merely to the management of the forum and it's rules.

Sincerely,
Digby


Its quite simple really -

How many active UK citz are there in game compared to how many are on the forums. And when he said 50% i think he was being generous if you see the results
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Iain Keers on April 21, 2013, 01:51:13 am
The fact that you need to see evidence is only evidence of how out of touch and utterly useless you actually are
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar on April 21, 2013, 02:01:30 am
Dear Messrs. G and Keers,

firstly, what does a comparison of in-game population and regular forum population actually prove? Furthermore, this still in no way whatsoever answers or even hints at how it's the fault of how the forums are run that there is a disparity. You must understand that there is, to put it lightly, somewhat of a gap between "the forums aren't as active as is ideal" and "people don't register and stay on the forums because of how they're run." The former statement I am not contesting here - although describing them as nearly dead or a fetid backwater is a little silly - I am merely wondering if there is any actual basis or evidence that could be provided for the latter conclusion that it is because of the various grievances that Mr. Keers et al. have with the admins and how the forums are run.

Secondly, Iain, thank you very much for your display of arrogance but you haven't actually provided anything to back up what you're saying, so at this point we're no further in exploring what you're trying to suggest. I'm not going to make a fuss about it but calling me "out of touch" and "utterly useless" is a bit of a non-response to me asking you to provide evidence for what you were saying.

Sincerely,
Digby
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Bohemond4 on April 21, 2013, 02:11:55 am
almost 3/4 of TUP do not have forum accounts.

the remaining 1/4, maybe 1/2 of that regularly log on, with around 1/4 of the 1/4, or 1/8 posting regularly and caring.

And we are one of the highest forum user parties, the second largest party in the eUK has around 20 accounts on the forums that say anything...and most of those don't even talk anymore, we only see about 2 big New Era posters.

Maybe we need to rethink how the forums are moderated in order to get more users, and, importantly, to get all the parties to encourage their use.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Carlini8 on April 21, 2013, 08:36:05 am
Quote from: "Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar"
Dear Mr. Keers,

I would like to see your evidence for the following claim (and an explanation as to how you came to the conclusion):

Quote from: "Iain Keers"
So much as half of the UK have no interest whatsoever due merely to the management of the forum and it's rules.

Sincerely,
Digby

I agree with Digby. How can Keers be so blind? It is well over a half that couldn't care less about these forums due to what has gone on here, W-HHHHHHH-EEEEELLLLLLLL over.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Carlini8 on April 21, 2013, 08:48:00 am
Also, as already stated it is ridiculous to ask for evidence. You are a moderator of our forums, surely you should know something about that is going on within the game. It is clear as day to 95% of the eUK players who read articles.

Party - Congress Votes - Stand on Forums - Reason they have this stand now

TUP - 209 - Do not inform new players of them, once the party that drove the forums, since the moderation changes a few of their most prominent members actively discourage them. Reason: How the forums are run
NE + UKPP - 243 - Actively discourage the forums. Call the current forums unfair and house of the old elite etc - So many quotes, all you have to do is actually log in to the game / irc and you hit one. Reason: How the forums are run
1V - 53 - I am not sure I have seen a 1V guy actively post here - They were founded by Alfa, guess what?
UKRP - 79 - Probably the only party left actively pushing to the forums as they control them, however I don't really see that many, maybe they too have given up on them.

Congress are on longer pushed here, important debates no longer happen here.

When I first played this game you needed to use these forums to really know what was going on, to know the important info that was needed (I am talking about the sort of info that still isn't in articles to this day, you need to get on IRC now which is obviously terribad for groups and storage due to the nature of IRC). Now you can log on here to see what is going on with minecraft, what the latest gay fad is and who wants to play what other game. There is very little useful about eRep bar flaming.

Oh please please please reply with a Dear Mr. Carlini, I apologise for how out of date I am. Seeing a customer service response to a message every 3rd post really livens the forums up... Oh wait.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 21, 2013, 09:42:02 am
Quote from: "carlini8"
Also, as already stated it is ridiculous to ask for evidence. You are a moderator of our forums, surely you should know something about that is going on within the game. It is clear as day to 95% of the eUK players who read articles.

Party - Congress Votes - Stand on Forums - Reason they have this stand now

TUP - 209 - Do not inform new players of them, once the party that drove the forums, since the moderation changes a few of their most prominent members actively discourage them. Reason: How the forums are run
NE + UKPP - 243 - Actively discourage the forums. Call the current forums unfair and house of the old elite etc - So many quotes, all you have to do is actually log in to the game / irc and you hit one. Reason: How the forums are run
1V - 53 - I am not sure I have seen a 1V guy actively post here - They were founded by Alfa, guess what?
UKRP - 79 - Probably the only party left actively pushing to the forums as they control them, however I don't really see that many, maybe they too have given up on them.

Congress are on longer pushed here, important debates no longer happen here.

When I first played this game you needed to use these forums to really know what was going on, to know the important info that was needed (I am talking about the sort of info that still isn't in articles to this day, you need to get on IRC now which is obviously terribad for groups and storage due to the nature of IRC). Now you can log on here to see what is going on with minecraft, what the latest gay fad is and who wants to play what other game. There is very little useful about eRep bar flaming.

Oh please please please reply with a Dear Mr. Carlini, I apologise for how out of date I am. Seeing a customer service response to a message every 3rd post really livens the forums up... Oh wait.
And there is the exact issue, nobody is actually advertising the forums besides a quick "You can get free stuff on the forums" every now and then. I'm not asking for evidence; the reason we opened this questionnaire and, simultaneously, a discussion group(Led by Jimbo, GO DO SOMETHING JIMBO) is because we don't need evidence to recognize that what you lot are saying is mostly true. However, while Keers says the solution is to fire myself and everybody else in the admin team, others are saying the solution is to be even harsher.

Also, Iain, I still log in, fight and read articles, so "Not playing eRepublik" doesn't really apply. We're giving you the opportunity to criticize everything we do on those forums, you appear to have a lot to say, so keep it related to the forums, and not our eRepublik careers.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Humphrey Appleby on April 21, 2013, 11:42:03 am
People ignore the fact that the general decline of the use of these forums broadly correlates with a general decline of eUK activity ingame :)

There is only so much surplus information you can generate from a game that requires no more than a few fingers and the brain of a duck to operate; those that creatively persist have my respect and gratitude regardless of the platform they choose to post in
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 21, 2013, 12:10:23 pm
The declining presence of people on here, especially from a broad spectrum, is why I asked if political stuff belongs on here anymore. I think we probably draw a fairly biased view and have considered, personally, whether this should be focused on being a friendly social area rather than a political one. People have disagreed with me on that one though so never mind.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Humphrey Appleby on April 21, 2013, 12:28:57 pm
I think reducing the rules to rapture-level would actually be a good idea

Edit: Rapture-level being removing only outright trolls and porn/major spam
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Big Ant on April 21, 2013, 12:30:27 pm
Quote from: "Butjam"
The declining presence of people on here, especially from a broad spectrum, is why I asked if political stuff belongs on here anymore. I think we probably draw a fairly biased view and have considered, personally, whether this should be focused on being a friendly social area rather than a political one. People have disagreed with me on that one though so never mind.

x2
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 21, 2013, 12:30:47 pm
Quote from: "Sir Humphrey Appleby"
I think reducing the rules to rapture-level would actually be a good idea
Might as well eh?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Humphrey Appleby on April 21, 2013, 12:33:47 pm
Shall I buy the champagne?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Dan Moir on April 21, 2013, 12:47:36 pm
Perceived harsh moderation has nothing to do with the activity of the forums.  It's actually pretty lenient here already.  Infraction points don't actually do anything unless you are a repeat offender like Goku.  Hardly anyone is banned at all, even for short periods.

The problem is two fold.

1) The game has become incredibly simple and many people who would have come here to ask questions, find out what's going on, etc in the past no longer have to.

2) Certain people/parties have actively discouraged the use of the forums over a period of time and others have let them push more and more away from the forums.  The congress forums used to be busy.  Now they'll elect any idiot and not even ask them to contribute to conversation or communicate with each other in debates.

The solution does not lie in turning this place into a place for people to continually post total shit in every thread (rapture style).  That will only put any sensible people off the forum and your general level of contribution will turn to shit level.

The solution, to some extent, is to move debate back into the forums.  You need to get parties on side and get them encouraging their members to come here.  Governments and MoHA departments in particular need to encourage people to join and get involved.  Forum awards did this well before.  More people need to start threads and contribute to existing threads.  Activity breeds more activity.  Also, stop giving all the positions to random UKRP members.

Of course the forums won't be as active as they were when UK had 9000 people in it but they can certainly be a hell of a lot more active than they are right now.  If you make the whole place like rapture though, I for one won't be hanging around much.  Reducing the quality really won't improve the place.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar on April 21, 2013, 01:53:21 pm
Dear Messrs. Bohemond and Carlini,

I wish to address the points from your posts thusly:

Quote from: "Bohemond4"
almost 3/4 of TUP do not have forum accounts.

the remaining 1/4, maybe 1/2 of that regularly log on, with around 1/4 of the 1/4, or 1/8 posting regularly and caring.

And we are one of the highest forum user parties, the second largest party in the eUK has around 20 accounts on the forums that say anything...and most of those don't even talk anymore, we only see about 2 big New Era posters.

Maybe we need to rethink how the forums are moderated in order to get more users, and, importantly, to get all the parties to encourage their use.

Maybe we do, but what I'm asking is how can people say with certainty that the problem of people not using the forum is actually do to do with how the forums are moderated? It's really quite a simple question, I just want to see how people correlate the two things.

Quote from: "carlini8"
It is well over a half that couldn't care less about these forums due to what has gone on here, W-HHHHHHH-EEEEELLLLLLLL over.

Once again, I ask simply how you have come to that conclusion.

Quote from: "carlini8"
Also, as already stated it is ridiculous to ask for evidence. You are a moderator of our forums, surely you should know something about that is going on within the game. It is clear as day to 95% of the eUK players who read articles.

No, it's not ridiculous, and given this is based around how we can improve the forum I think it's quite dangerous to just accept something at face value and act upon it without considering other possibilities.

I don't know a lot of what's going on within the game, personally, because I haven't played it for a very long time now. When I quit, it (and particularly the state of party politics) was in a slow decline, and the impression I get is that that remains the case, although I will of course take note of your assessment:

Quote from: "carlini8"
Party - Congress Votes - Stand on Forums - Reason they have this stand now

TUP - 209 - Do not inform new players of them, once the party that drove the forums, since the moderation changes a few of their most prominent members actively discourage them. Reason: How the forums are run

So basically, rather than constructively bring these disputes up and make an effort to try and improve the forum they instead act in order to damage it?

Quote from: "carlini8"
NE + UKPP - 243 - Actively discourage the forums. Call the current forums unfair and house of the old elite etc - So many quotes, all you have to do is actually log in to the game / irc and you hit one. Reason: How the forums are run

Same question as above.

Quote from: "carlini8"
UKRP - 79 - Probably the only party left actively pushing to the forums as they control them, however I don't really see that many, maybe they too have given up on them.

I thought we had moved on from the nonsense rhetoric that a party controls the forum? Do you really believe that?

Quote from: "carlini8"
When I first played this game you needed to use these forums to really know what was going on, to know the important info that was needed (I am talking about the sort of info that still isn't in articles to this day, you need to get on IRC now which is obviously terribad for groups and storage due to the nature of IRC). Now you can log on here to see what is going on with minecraft, what the latest gay fad is and who wants to play what other game. There is very little useful about eRep bar flaming.

I imagine for new players the first issue remains to be what I experienced when I first joined: that registering on the forums is a much further commitment to the game than simply starting to play it. This used to be negated largely through parties involving people in politics and trying to make the experience better for people, but apparently I've missed something that happened where instead of that, parties have rejected what they consider an "establishment" and no longer work to create a larger community. Over some disputes perhaps the moderation and admins are at fault but to be quite honest anyone who leads their party and community away from the forum because of politics or disputes is being counterproductive and acting without regard for what happens to the larger community beyond their own party.

I'm sure there are justifications for doing it and I'm also sure that they'll be brought up but to be quite honest - no matter what else - we're all people capable of intelligent discussion about an issue or problem that is affecting the community and the responsibility for doing so should be felt by everyone.

Sincerely,
Digby

P.S. Mr. Carlini, what exactly is your problem with the way I choose to post?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Carlini8 on April 21, 2013, 02:24:41 pm
Once again, I ask simply how you have come to that conclusion. - Log into the game, look at the articles. Maybe look at the lack of new players on the forum. I don't need to go out and do a survey for something that is right in everyone's (except apparently yours) faces

No, it's not ridiculous, and given this is based around how we can improve the forum I think it's quite dangerous to just accept something at face value and act upon it without considering other possibilities. - Other possibilities? The statement we are talking about is that people are not using the forums because of the stupid political situation we have in this eCountry.

So basically, rather than constructively bring these disputes up and make an effort to try and improve the forum they instead act in order to damage it? -Yes - That is the needed evidence which you require I presume, as I said, you just need to log in to see it. There was an attempt in the first of BA's double term but that went south and changed from encouraging the "other side" to give it a go to a campaign of "flower the forums" - That is an answer to NE/UKPP, as for TUP, demoting Keers Talon and Dan, ie TUP, probably had something to do with that.

I thought we had moved on from the nonsense rhetoric that a party controls the forum? Do you really believe that? - I honestly couldn't care less. I quit any sort of stupid party politics this game has to offer after I saw Lily clutch to power as hard as she could in ESO. People are always fairer to their friends and harder on people they don't like, that is evident everywhere.


I imagine for new players the first issue remains to be what I experienced when I first joined: that registering on the forums is a much further commitment to the game than simply starting to play it. This used to be negated largely through parties involving people in politics and trying to make the experience better for people, but apparently I've missed something that happened where instead of that, parties have rejected what they consider an "establishment" and no longer work to create a larger community. Over some disputes perhaps the moderation and admins are at fault but to be quite honest anyone who leads their party and community away from the forum because of politics or disputes is being counterproductive and acting without regard for what happens to the larger community beyond their own party.

When you joined you were encouraged to join the forums. You were told, by at least a handful of people, that the forums would be useful and help you progress in the game. The only barrier at that point was the bother of logging into the forums. When I started, everyone told me the same. As far as I am aware, and I read pretty much all of the ingame media, no one was actively discouraging it in articles. Now, if you join NE or UKPP for the off you are not going to join the forums at all, end of. If you join ESO you might and then you will probably discuss butterflies and fairy's in the discussion threads, TUP probably depends on the PP. I think UKRP push for it for their other games on their private sections. I pushed for Legion members to join a while back just so we could have another area to plan and try to keep members active in the Legion section. Sadly I wouldn't do that anymore. If they venture anywhere other than the Legion subsection they are likely to see flaming and put them off the game. If they put an idea out there they are likely to be flamed themselves for their "newbish-ness". These forums are quite simply no longer friendly and politics is the reason why.

P.S. Mr. Carlini, what exactly is your problem with the way I choose to post? - I don't actually know how long you have had your modship. I just know you didn't used to be a Mod and you didn't used to post like this. Just looks like you are trying to act all professional because you are a Mod instead of just sitting down and having a conversation.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar on April 21, 2013, 02:49:23 pm
Dear Mr. Carlini,

Quote from: "carlini8"
1 Log into the game, look at the articles. Maybe look at the lack of new players on the forum. I don't need to go out and do a survey for something that is right in everyone's (except apparently yours) faces
2 Other possibilities? The statement we are talking about is that people are not using the forums because of the stupid political situation we have in this eCountry.
3 Yes - That is the needed evidence which you require I presume, as I said, you just need to log in to see it. There was an attempt in the first of BA's double term but that went south and changed from encouraging the "other side" to give it a go to a campaign of "flower the forums" - That is an answer to NE/UKPP, as for TUP, demoting Keers Talon and Dan, ie TUP, probably had something to do with that.
4 I honestly couldn't care less. I quit any sort of stupid party politics this game has to offer after I saw Lily clutch to power as hard as she could in ESO. People are always fairer to their friends and harder on people they don't like, that is evident everywhere.
5 When you joined you were encouraged to join the forums. You were told, by at least a handful of people, that the forums would be useful and help you progress in the game. The only barrier at that point was the bother of logging into the forums. When I started, everyone told me the same. As far as I am aware, and I read pretty much all of the ingame media, no one was actively discouraging it in articles. Now, if you join NE or UKPP for the off you are not going to join the forums at all, end of. If you join ESO you might and then you will probably discuss butterflies and fairy's in the discussion threads, TUP probably depends on the PP. I think UKRP push for it for their other games on their private sections. I pushed for Legion members to join a while back just so we could have another area to plan and try to keep members active in the Legion section. Sadly I wouldn't do that anymore. If they venture anywhere other than the Legion subsection they are likely to see flaming and put them off the game. If they put an idea out there they are likely to be flamed themselves for their "newbish-ness". These forums are quite simply no longer friendly and politics is the reason why.
6 I don't actually know how long you have had your modship. I just know you didn't used to be a Mod and you didn't used to post like this. Just looks like you are trying to act all professional because you are a Mod instead of just sitting down and having a conversation.

1: What do these apparent articles contain that so obviously set out that the reason there are few relative people using the forum is because of how they're moderated? All I'm asking is how that conclusion is reached and so far nobody has actually been able to answer the question.


2: No it's not, I want to know why people think that the the problem of people not using the forums is outrightly because of how they're moderated - or rather that they're moderated too harshly.


3: Well then that's obviously a further problem, and one where any issues with how things are dealt with should be taken up with Kumnaa. The rest just seems a bit silly to be taken this seriously, to be quite honest, and it's not exactly a decent way to go about trying to improve things. The demoting of "TUP" I assume wasn't anything to do with actually how moderation is done, though? Surely they're seperate issues.


4: Well, I'm not going to make a case that says otherwise, but I was under the impression there's a lot of neutrality in moderation (having experienced both ends of it). From my own experience within the first week I banned a BBHer. There is, howeverly, clearly a problem somewhere with the communication between both moderators (in their enforcement) and communication between moderators and forum users. The amount of drama that can occur just from infractions is quite absurd, and in situations where something should be reviewed or even changed it's gone about in completely the wrong way. For instance, a user being banned and they think that the infraction that triggered it was unfair. Rather than rant on IRC, swear a lot and complain about the moderation, the steps instead should be to talk to the moderators, admins or Kumnaa (depending on what level you feel it was unfairly given). This is and always has been a bit of a problem.


5: That all seems a complete shame, then - especially considering how easy it would actually be for everyone to drop their grudges and go about trying to solve problems in a proper way. By the impact individuals have over their respective parties any individual actions and disputes have obvious effects on the community as a whole, and since a lot of the posted content of the forum isn't about party politics (and a decent amount isn't about in-game politics itself) this is obviously just a really terrible situation to be in. I would have thought that if anywhere, the forums are the place to leave your drama and quarrels at the door and just communicate with people you share an interest in the game with.


6: I've been formatting posts like this before I became a mod, it became a challenge from Bob after a day or so of a lot of BBH trying to keep it up. As far as I'm aware I'm the only one who still does it with every post, but it actually has its merits as a way of posting.

Sincerely,
Digby
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Iain Keers on April 21, 2013, 03:30:36 pm
Let me explain what is happening here. A person is raising grievances and explaining where the problems are coming from. A mod is telling them they are wrong.

This is what is wrong with the forums. There's no way I'd advertise this place to new players, let alone host discussion here.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar on April 21, 2013, 03:41:08 pm
Dear Mr. Keers,

I'm not telling anyone that they're wrong, I'm commenting and asking for substance to the idea that's being put forward that the reason for the low forum population is the harshness of moderation.

If you don't like this particular discussion then I suggest you don't take part in it and everyone concerned will be content, but continuing to post irrelevancies after I asked you to substantiate an argument is not what I would personally call constructive. I really don't understand what possible problem you have with me asking how something is correlated or discussing the issues that have been raised.

Sincerely,
Digby
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: N W G on April 21, 2013, 03:55:29 pm
i think to be fair all this has shown is how quick and easy it is to loose touch with a game you havent played in a while.

Does that have any relation to being a mod on a forums ??? No i dont think it does.

However it does mean its that much harder for them to interact and take part in discussions relating to the game
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 21, 2013, 04:12:32 pm
Basically everyone has posted almost exactly the same feedback in the questionnaire, including a moderator, people who usually hate and campaign against each other and party presidents who represent even more people. The exception is what appear to be two joke replies.

Mainly one person disagrees and thinks that everyone else is the problem. Am I being cynical or would I be right in thinking that one guy is going to get his own way?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Iain Keers on April 21, 2013, 04:55:46 pm
Dear Mr Digby,

Telling people that if they disagree with you they should leave is painfully stupid for a forum which is losing members. However it is especially stupid when essentially it is not me disagreeing with you, it is everyone disagreeing with you. As the minority, I suggest it is you who should kindly crawl back into the cesspit of BBH where you belong.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar on April 21, 2013, 04:59:32 pm
Dear Mr. Keers,

you are not disagreeing with me, you are simply responding to me in a very hostile way without answering the question that I originally and since have repeatedly posed.

I'm also not telling anyone to leave, I simply said that if you're not going to take a discussion seriously and post as you have been when I'm trying to engage in a constructive manner and actually explore things then it's probably best if you don't post like you have been to me. That's not to say that I think or have said that you shouldn't post in the thread (I was talking about the particular discussion in here), or even actually that I'm telling you to not reply to me, I just think that both what and the way you've been posting is not helpful and has been unprovoked.

Sincerely,
Digby
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 21, 2013, 05:31:16 pm
So let's say I'm writing new rules which are both clearer and more lenient, what would you guys(Goku, mostly) want included?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Talon Karrde on April 21, 2013, 05:39:33 pm
Quote from: "Frerk"
So let's say I'm writing new rules which are both clearer and more lenient, what would you guys(Goku, mostly) want included?

Quote
• Multiple accounts will be permanently banned and information passed on to eRepublik admins.
• Posts containing nudity, pornography, offensive images or copyrighted content IN ANY FORM is not tolerated and may result in a permanent ban.
• Racism and otherwise offensive posting is not appropriate and will result in infraction points being added to your profile.
• Jokes about dead forum members or forum member's family are not permitted.
• The publishing of other people's private and/or personal information without consent will be investigated and may result in a permanent ban.

Quote
PM's may not be used to insult/abuse any members, such reports will be investigated and will result in infraction points being added to your user profile.

Quote
• Private sub-forums are to remain private, all leaks will be investigated, and may result in permanent bans. This includes passing on leaked posts.
• Private sub-forums are moderated by their creators/assigned people, these moderators are not full forum moderators, and must ensure the private sub-forums follow the general forum rules. Global moderators/admins may also moderate in any private forum they have access to.
• Do not mess with user group names or colours.

This is what I would keep from the current rules.

No porn, racism, or utter nastyness, no PM abuse, and the last part is just to make subforum use clear as it iis now.


Let me post entertaining images sometimes, let us follow the natural course of discussion within a thread, and I'll be a happy camper.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 21, 2013, 05:53:15 pm
As a side note: What about a public infractions log? There's one in the moderator control panel so we would be able to see if mods were infracting without posting but sometimes people don't sew that people are getting infracted because you have to scroll up. For greater transparency, a post in this format

User infracted and number of points
Thread where post is located
The post in question
The reasoning

Appeals would be listed and commented on by the admin making the decision by quoting the post and listing their decision
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: FightAndProduce on April 21, 2013, 05:56:52 pm
Time for the nub to say something. :)

Before you read this,I probably have no clue about what I'm talking about.So don't take everything I say 100% seriously.

In my opinion,I think the reason why people do not join the forums/do not post is that this forum contains a lot of old players.As a new player,they feel intimidated to join or post on the forums (Including myself) The reason why I don't post is so I don't make a fool out of myself.

I've never found the forums to be a welcoming place,Therefore I don't log on much or post.

Just my input on the issue,I know it probably doesn't shed much light on the issue :S.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 21, 2013, 05:59:35 pm
When I joined you could say what you wanted and 100% of the community used the forums for everything with no issues. Then moderators and admins started running for elections and on purpose or not people started getting banned for not agreeing with them, now I can't even explain what is happening it just seems like trolling to me.


Only give infractions and lock threads for:
1) Gore/Porn/Viruses etc the obvious stuff.
2) Continued arguments. Always give a warning to individuals AND the thread if a debate is turning into an argument and infractions/thread lock are being prepped if it continues.
3) Real spam. You know, multiple posts in a row (not double post), multiple offtopic in a row (talking about totally different subject nobody else is talking about, not slight tangents), pictures/one word posts in multiple threads (not a single post like this), mass necromancy (not a single thread). Delete these replies don't lock the topic.


You are giving spam infractions for things which are not spam. You are giving infractions for pointing this out. It is sucking the life out of this place. Stop doing it and the problems will go away. The very fact that you need to ask and that forum usage has gone from 100% of the community to 80% then 40% at best shows that you have no idea what you are doing.



EDIT: Look at the latest Questionnaire. You have an ex mod saying that lulz is ok (lists his friends) but trolling should be punished (lists people he doesn't like). They are the same thing! This is a clear example of the kind of bias we have had.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Arrlo on April 21, 2013, 06:08:40 pm
Are you seriously asking how to moderate?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Lady Rainicorn on April 21, 2013, 06:11:26 pm
In fairness to people hear backseat modding infractions is something I never felt was necessary
Though this needs to be both an admin and a community effort

If we are to be more lax the community also needs to be more welcoming, put aside your petty squabbles and take the stick out ya asses. Lets have debate again not hate.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 21, 2013, 06:13:58 pm
Quote from: "Thatcher"
Are you seriously asking how to moderate?
No, I'm asking people who constantly say we need to be less strict just how they want us to do so.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Arrlo on April 21, 2013, 06:16:12 pm
Quote from: "Frerk"
Quote from: "Thatcher"
Are you seriously asking how to moderate?
No, I'm asking people who constantly say we need to be less strict just how they want us to do so.

That's exactly what I said Frerkypoo.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Dishmcds on April 21, 2013, 06:28:00 pm
I would say that you'd probably want Digby to be a little less antagonising. I might not agree that this place is "horribad" or anything, but I realise I don't come here for hours on end anymore, and I usually don't post a ton. Keers, and hell, even Goku, could drive recruitment if they chose to. Antagonising them isn't going to solve the problem in this forum.

Now, if Keers introduces some form of legislation you don't like, antagonise the shit out of him. That's politics, not moderation.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Gav Miller on April 21, 2013, 07:17:13 pm
The Applaud/Smite feature I suggested could automatically ban a person for a certain number of days at a certain number of smites. So any continued shit posting could be combated by the forum community as a whole and not just the mod team.

Although this could easily be abused and unliked members of the community could find themselves being banned by the rest of the forum community quite a lot :3
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Lady Rainicorn on April 21, 2013, 07:21:09 pm
Quote from: "Gav Miller"
The Applaud/Smite feature I suggested could automatically ban a person for a certain number of days at a certain number of smites. So any continued shit posting could be combated by the forum community as a whole and not just the mod team.

Although this could easily be abused and unliked members of the community could find themselves being banned by the rest of the forum community quite a lot :3

Yes which would be my problem with it, if after so long it flagged up to a mod maybe but thats about the same as reports just from many people rather than one
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Smack on April 21, 2013, 11:40:37 pm
Example. (http://forums.erepublik.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1388523#p1388523)

I mean really, did that thread need to have a moderator warning on it? This is the sort of anal rule following that ruins a bit of fun people were having, without making some huge drastic thread derail. That thread would have been perfectly fine had it been left alone.

No offence intended Rob.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Lady Rainicorn on April 21, 2013, 11:51:10 pm
Quote from: "Smack"
Example. (http://forums.erepublik.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1388523#p1388523)

I mean really, did that thread need to have a moderator warning on it? This is the sort of anal rule following that ruins a bit of fun people were having, without making some huge drastic thread derail. That thread would have been perfectly fine had it been left alone.

No offence intended Rob.
Hey Smack just to explain why I took action in that thread, it was a Public Discussion thread about MoF business and I would happily have allowed such talk in general or irc, but I felt the posting was detrimental to the thread at hand and stopped further constructive posting. I gave a little community message to this effect, the official warning only came when the line was crossed.

That my rule when modding I will be fair but not a walk over.

I do realise some my class this as off topic in this thread but feel it will help with the modding discussion at hand.

Cheers
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Bohemond4 on April 22, 2013, 12:32:49 am
I think Goku and Talon between them have hit the nail on the head at the moment.

I have a question for you Goku, if the forums changed to be more along the lines you and Talon have discussed, would you be willing to actively promote these forums in your party?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 22, 2013, 12:42:26 am
Quote from: "Robalbinio"
Quote from: "Smack"
Example. (http://forums.erepublik.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1388523#p1388523)

I mean really, did that thread need to have a moderator warning on it? This is the sort of anal rule following that ruins a bit of fun people were having, without making some huge drastic thread derail. That thread would have been perfectly fine had it been left alone.

No offence intended Rob.
Hey Smack just to explain why I took action in that thread, it was a Public Discussion thread about MoF business and I would happily have allowed such talk in general or irc, but I felt the posting was detrimental to the thread at hand and stopped further constructive posting. I gave a little community message to this effect, the official warning only came when the line was crossed.

That my rule when modding I will be fair but not a walk over.

I do realise some my class this as off topic in this thread but feel it will help with the modding discussion at hand.

Cheers
I feel that Rob posting that was fair, we had a little bit of a laugh and then reminded to keep talking about the report. The posts by N W G are the 'backseat moderating' that we don't want to see. When you have an issue with any moderation, click the report button or speak to an admin. It's what we're here for. Admins deliberately avoid moderating so that we can be the next ones to look it over if people have a problem with it.

We want people to comment on our performance, that's the only way to stay relevant and reading some of the responses I begin to wonder if we've not been criticised enough before now for fear of repercussions. Speak to an admin, or open a thread in the suggestions forum if you want to be transparent where everyone can see it.

Smack did the right thing by bringing it up somewhere relevant, here, where both the mod involved and now an admin have given our views on it. N W G has posted twice in the thread where it wasn't necessary and I hope people understand why we issue infractions for that.

Oh, speaking of complaining about modding, let me copy something from the irc room

Quote
[22:36] <&butjam> I don't know why people have to be such dickheads about it all
[22:36] <&butjam> THere's never any "Hi, we'd like to see these changes please"
[22:37] <&butjam> It's always "THE FORUMS ARE SHIT AND YOU'RE SHIT AND IT'S ALL SHIT AND MAKE SOME FUCKING CHANGES"
That's me being grumpy and calling the lot of you dickheads (which I wouldn't normally do in public and I'm sorry for it)but that's honestly how it feels sometimes. None of us get anything out of this (except a power trip) so it's not very fun when we get really nasty comments and get called 'stupid' and 'useless'. It's not much to ask for you to be polite. A couple weeks back now, Gav popped up to me on IRC to appeal some infraction points, he was really friendly and polite and it didn't feel like a chore overturning them. Goku was also very polite in appealing them and it was the quickest resolution to a dispute we've ever had.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Dishmcds on April 22, 2013, 06:54:44 am
I've been pondering on how to say this, but just to begin, frankly I thought Rob's response to the MoF topic in light of a few OT posts was warranted, tbh. Iain probably should have gotten points for his post, but then you'd have to give them to Butjam for his.

Even though I disagree with almost everything Goku says (as well as BigAnt) mainly because their antagonising, argumentative, disruptive [mean people], most of the people here are correct in that the forums are horribly inactive given where they have come from. Before anyone starts, its not Dan being "removed", or Frerk, or even Kumnaa having enough of a life that he doesn't need to be here forever. It has to do with the shift in type of player that Erepublik has, in my opinion.

Back when the forums where larger and more active than about half the countries in Erepublik, we were people who tried to do what the game allowed, as well as create the things you now have in game (cabinets, etc). We had to have this forum because there were no good places on Erepublik to talk about things. Over the first couple of years, the population was consistent, led by the people bred from the same generation of players.

In the last few years, we've managed to keep fewer and fewer with our older players going inactive (myself included), and the likes of players such as Goku, BigAnt, Alfa, etc basically taking their roles as outcasts and using it to both smear those who use the forums in the way only they can (essentially lying about them), and creating a rift so that there are a large group of players who are in game based, ignore everyone else, buy their stats (in gold purchase) rather than just earning it the way we had to, and so on.

If you want the forums to be "better" again in comparison to what they used to be, you'd have to adjust the fact that most of those here don't play Erepublik nearly as actively as we used to, communicate in game about them, make cosmetic changes (perhaps new skins, features, etc) to make them attractive to players that like shiny things, and above all, talk to the people playing the game and let them get to know you. That's the only way to neuter people like Goku and BigAnt who use their fuel about "how awful" the forums are, really, is to get to know those people, and show them that you're not the god awful elitist twats that they say you are.

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Niemand on April 22, 2013, 08:19:11 am
You put the nail on the head.  :!:

Because we cannot change the game itself (and can only hope the promised change in economics would bring real improvement) we can only try to make the forum itself more attractive (not my kind of job sorry).

That said we must try to change the climate on the forums too. I do hate some people here, I do try to not attack those people. I try to be more positive to the ones that are trying to improve the forums and eUK. Let us all try (and do not expect the trolls to change, best to ignore them).  :)
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Thomas765 on April 22, 2013, 08:36:55 am
Quote from: "Gav Miller"
The Applaud/Smite feature I suggested could automatically ban a person for a certain number of days at a certain number of smites. So any continued shit posting could be combated by the forum community as a whole and not just the mod team.

Although this could easily be abused and unliked members of the community could find themselves being banned by the rest of the forum community quite a lot :3

Yeah because 50 people smiting Goku or Iain for the hell of it and then having them banned for 3 days is a great idea. The Smite/Applaud system on the US forums has been heavily abused. I think it would be a good idea to have a similar system in place though, not that smites/applauds are an accurate measure of how well someone posts. A like feature or thumbs up/down feature for posts may be a good idea. I find myself not wanting to post in PD but I do agree with what's being said some of the time.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Bohemond4 on April 22, 2013, 08:51:16 am
Quote from: "Thomas765"
Quote from: "Gav Miller"
The Applaud/Smite feature I suggested could automatically ban a person for a certain number of days at a certain number of smites. So any continued shit posting could be combated by the forum community as a whole and not just the mod team.

Although this could easily be abused and unliked members of the community could find themselves being banned by the rest of the forum community quite a lot :3

Yeah because 50 people smiting Goku or Iain for the hell of it and then having them banned for 3 days is a great idea. The Smite/Applaud system on the US forums has been heavily abused. I think it would be a good idea to have a similar system in place though, not that smites/applauds are an accurate measure of how well someone posts. A like feature or thumbs up/down feature for posts may be a good idea. I find myself not wanting to post in PD but I do agree with what's being said some of the time.

I want to like this post...
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Iain Keers on April 22, 2013, 09:45:07 am
I'd be fine with a smite/applaud system, or even a repping system. however since nobody posts anything it seems pointless
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Smack on April 22, 2013, 03:31:42 pm
Quote from: "Butjam"
We want people to comment on our performance, that's the only way to stay relevant and reading some of the responses I begin to wonder if we've not been criticised enough before now for fear of repercussions. Speak to an admin, or open a thread in the suggestions forum if you want to be transparent where everyone can see it.

Smack did the right thing by bringing it up somewhere relevant, here, where both the mod involved and now an admin have given our views on it. N W G has posted twice in the thread where it wasn't necessary and I hope people understand why we issue infractions for that.

It's because when something is brought up, it's not really dealt with. I sent a detailed email to Kumnaa and Nelsaidi about an issue that I had a legitimate reason to be pissed off about. Nothing got done about it by them, nor by Frerk at the time. It comes down to having no faith that the admins will do anything when there's an obvious bias. You're the first admin that's actually tried to improve this.

I accept your reasoning regarding the MoF thread, though I don't particularly agree.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 22, 2013, 03:38:36 pm
Quote from: "Smack"
Quote from: "Butjam"
We want people to comment on our performance, that's the only way to stay relevant and reading some of the responses I begin to wonder if we've not been criticised enough before now for fear of repercussions. Speak to an admin, or open a thread in the suggestions forum if you want to be transparent where everyone can see it.

Smack did the right thing by bringing it up somewhere relevant, here, where both the mod involved and now an admin have given our views on it. N W G has posted twice in the thread where it wasn't necessary and I hope people understand why we issue infractions for that.

It's because when something is brought up, it's not really dealt with. I sent a detailed email to Kumnaa and Nelsaidi about an issue that I had a legitimate reason to be pissed off about. Nothing got done about it by them, nor by Frerk at the time. It comes down to having no faith that the admins will do anything when there's an obvious bias. You're the first admin that's actually tried to improve this.

I accept your reasoning regarding the MoF thread, though I don't particularly agree.
What issue was this and when? Because they never told me anything about you having any issue(God knows where Nelsaidi is anyway) and that can be a problem..
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Smack on April 22, 2013, 03:47:27 pm
Quote from: "Frerk"
[What issue was this and when? Because they never told me anything about you having any issue(God knows where Nelsaidi is anyway) and that can be a problem..

Butjam has the email. He can pass it on. It was over a year ago, but it's still relevant in regards to admin and moderating the forum.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 22, 2013, 04:19:41 pm
I'll bring it up once again because I feel it may have been glossed over a little.... Public Infraction Logs anyone? Me, Digby and Kdogg discussed this last night
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Iain Keers on April 22, 2013, 05:17:20 pm
Nobody cares about public infraction logs. Basically it is simple.

Premises:

1. The ingame population has declined slightly, but the forum use has declined massively
2. Many of the people in charge of the forums do not play the game
3. Those who do, don't advertise the forums or make any effort.
4. The people who do play the game and make an effort no longer want to use the forums


Conclusions

1. You need to replace all the inactive people who don't even play eRepublik properly with active people who do play.
2. This will lead to them having a stake in advertising the forums.
3. You also need to try and include community leaders who regularly communicate with hundreds of players, not alienate them.


Without these steps you're effectively burying your head in the sand. I mean look at Carlini for example. He doesn't post here much, but he's spent the last six months in contact with hundreds of players every day through his Legion project. He pretty much lifted it off the ground single handedly, and though he's had a lot of help along the way it's his brainchild. He's responsible for more communication with citizens than the entire admin team put together, and yet his views are getting dismissed/belittled by someone who hasn't logged into the game in a year. It's utterly ludicrous.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 22, 2013, 06:02:39 pm
Quote from: "Iain Keers"
Without these steps you're effectively burying your head in the sand. I mean look at Carlini for example. He doesn't post here much, but he's spent the last six months in contact with hundreds of players every day through his Legion project. He pretty much lifted it off the ground single handedly, and though he's had a lot of help along the way it's his brainchild. He's responsible for more communication with citizens than the entire admin team put together, and yet his views are getting dismissed/belittled by someone who hasn't logged into the game in a year. It's utterly ludicrous.
If Digby can't give his views because he hasn't logged into the game for a while then why should we listen to people who don't want to use the forums?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 22, 2013, 06:54:50 pm
There is a lot to reply to here so I'll just cut to the heart of this. I'm going to leave out much of my reasoning to get a short sharp message:


I want to use a eUK Forum, many of the people here do and it is why we are here. It it is needed to bind together and serve the eRepublik UK community.
Another group are really good friends and want to use a forum to keep in touch and it is why they are still here. I don't think anyone would begrudge them this or them running it their way.

There is an overlap but mostly these two groups don't need each other and want different things. This conflict is damaging the eRepublik UK community and damaging the eUK Forums community. It is time to part ways.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Lady Rainicorn on April 22, 2013, 07:06:41 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
There is a lot to reply to here so I'll just cut to the heart of this. I'm going to leave out much of my reasoning to get a short sharp message:


I want to use a eUK Forum, many of the people here do and it is why we are here. It it is needed to bind together and serve the eRepublik UK community.
Another group are really good friends and want to use a forum to keep in touch and it is why they are still here. I don't think anyone would begrudge them this or them running it their way.

There is an overlap but mostly these two groups don't need each other and want different things. This conflict is damaging the eRepublik UK community and damaging the eUK Forums community. It is time to part ways.

Since my return I've not really seen this divide, people are quicker to argue than debate for sure. I discussed this the other night on the irc that even at the height of the HoL debate when people were at each others throats PD moved along quite well.

I did miss the whole move away from the forums that happened in 2012 so can't comment on why this occured but I think the forums can easily be a place for both constructive erep stuff and a community to chat, I don't see how you feel these conflict? If you could elaborate on this. Or is it a case of we now have two such different camps in terms of how the country should be run we can never bridge the gap?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 22, 2013, 07:26:57 pm
The battle for how the country should be run has been won and lost already.

The divide has changed and now isn't really between eRepublik players so much anymore as between eRepublik players and non eRepublik players. If I joined today without the history I don't think I'd have many problems with the parties actually active in game like TUP and vice versa, it was all about the stuff off the game and the occasional undealt with backstabbing.

I think the problems are more practicalities like:
1) Having all big parties represented and doing community building as Iain says vs having your mates running it.
2) Having the elected government ministers actually upgrading and improving the forums vs having someone with no time for this anymore because he kindly pays for it.

One is great for a group of friends playing some games together and I wouldn't ask you to do it any other way. One is great for bringing together an alliance of clans/guilds/parties to work together for a single goal - which we desperatly need.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Wayne on April 22, 2013, 07:32:54 pm
I'll say it again...

Quote from: "WayneKerr"
Porn/racism/anything illegal then clamp down hard and ban.  Anything else then meh, just let it go.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Lady Rainicorn on April 22, 2013, 07:42:51 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"

I think the problems are more practicalities like:
1) Having all big parties represented and doing community building as Iain says vs having your mates running it.
2) Having the elected government ministers actually upgrading and improving the forums vs having someone with no time for this anymore because he kindly pays for it.

I'll just focus on these two for now fella as I'm cooking dinner

1) I can see the need for it to end the constant 'you went against me cos your in a different party' but at the end of the day what do we class big as top 5?, Its a bit harder now we have alot of quite large parties. What if someone from there is unsuitable for the power it brings or a party just doesn't have a member they feel confident in putting forward. There are pluses and minuses on both sides, tbf I think the current system just with open application process would be the best compromise. Then people can see who applied, what they said and the current teams reasonings for approval/declining there application.

2) I disagree strongly here, yeah Kumnaas not been around for a long time, but hes a constant rock in keeping this forum going. Governments change, what if someone comes into office who won't pay for the forum or can't be bothered to do it.

I would like to see alot more Ministry activity here definitely the ministry section used to be a hive of activity but now they seem to be one man bands outside of MoFA Ambassadors a few apprentices again so new players have more to do than party politicking would be awesome.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 22, 2013, 08:14:22 pm
These are things we need to discuss sure, but they are not insumountable obstacles. Since most people don't want moderators anyway that is less of an issue, we just need to find someone willing to be a neutral but active patron to fund it or a group who chip in for it.

What we have now has it's own set of problems. Kind person pays for forums, appoints his friends who appoint several generations of people they like hasn't exactly been successful. Proven by the more and more frequent "oh wait nobody is using the forums!? what do we do?" threads.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Dnouser on April 22, 2013, 08:29:34 pm
Good grief, the problem is addressed in this very thread.  Two diverse groups of people who want different things trying to work together. How about everyone just grow up and submit to the moderation that is already in place, they are bending over backwards to work with you all.  


Goku you will never be happy unless you get your way on everything, maybe it would be best if you just moved along. Start your own forum
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: GameChanger on April 22, 2013, 09:07:15 pm
Here's my two cents:

Infractions ought to be set out in different tiers. Right now, two vastly different infractions can result in the same punishment. Some things like pornography are easy to determine, and can be dealt with using a warning and then a ban afterwards.

Other things, like "racism" are not as easily defined. Once on IRC, I made some sort of joke about black people on #euk during a joke session of some sort. It wasn't intended to be insulting or racist in any way, but some people overreacted, and I got demoted temporarily from Op ot half op.

This is a good example of how there can be miscommunications on the internet. It can be hard to detect irony, sarcasm, or tone using just text. A friendly joke can be misinterpreted as a deadly insult.

To this effect, we need to make sure our admins can interpret what people are saying in threads to see whether it is an actual insult deserving punishment, or something that can be let go.

Adding to that, someone who is accused of racism or bigotry or another "crime", should have a chance to explain themselves. Not in a PM, but in an actual thread where the accused can explain their actions to the public, preventing the accused from unfair punishment. The public should be able to see the process of punishment, to establish good faith that the punishment is indeed fair and just.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: BaskB on April 23, 2013, 10:09:42 am
Just to expand on my thoughts.

The forum is too EREP focused. This is the eUK community use that as a tool to move forward. OFF TOPIC forums have as many posts as the entire eUK General forum, despite a largely irrelevant game we have a here a great "Online Gaming Community" or CLAN as they are usually referred too, Erep is just a small part of many on here's online time. You have Battlefield Groups, Minecraft Groups, Sim City Groups etc etc..... Move the focus towards an online gaming community rather than an Erep central community.

http://www.egov4you.info/country/history/29 (http://www.egov4you.info/country/history/29)

For around 300 days now our ingame Pop has stayed largely static. You can spin it whichever way you like for your own political games but simply put, Erepublik in the UK is a largely irrelevant game, on a world stage this forum represents about 1.5% of said game community, active on here probably about 0.2-0.3%.

You already allow any group to be created aslong as it has 10 voters so expand on that, become the UK Online Community.

Far Far too many forums on here are spreading a thin user base further out and having some forums without posts for weeks on end. MERGE General & PD. Presidential Announcements should just be an announcement at the top of said merged forum. Once a new "update" is applied, it replaces the old one. 3 Forums that don't actually justify being more than one.

Free Stuff - Merge it with Citizen Advice. Does 12 Topics really justify a forum??

Government Forums - Waste of time, merge it with something or make it a sub forum.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Smack on April 23, 2013, 10:49:21 am
Quote from: "BaskB"
Just to expand on my thoughts.

The forum is too EREP focused. This is the eUK community use that as a tool to move forward. OFF TOPIC forums have as many posts as the entire eUK General forum, despite a largely irrelevant game we have a here a great "Online Gaming Community" or CLAN as they are usually referred too, Erep is just a small part of many on here's online time. You have Battlefield Groups, Minecraft Groups, Sim City Groups etc etc..... Move the focus towards an online gaming community rather than an Erep central community.


You should read this thread. (http://forums.erepublik.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=74110&start=20) It was an idea I took from USA last year that's similar to this.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: BaskB on April 23, 2013, 10:58:48 am
Quote from: "Smack"
Quote from: "BaskB"
Just to expand on my thoughts.

The forum is too EREP focused. This is the eUK community use that as a tool to move forward. OFF TOPIC forums have as many posts as the entire eUK General forum, despite a largely irrelevant game we have a here a great "Online Gaming Community" or CLAN as they are usually referred too, Erep is just a small part of many on here's online time. You have Battlefield Groups, Minecraft Groups, Sim City Groups etc etc..... Move the focus towards an online gaming community rather than an Erep central community.


You should read this thread. (http://forums.erepublik.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=74110&start=20) It was an idea I took from USA last year that's similar to this.

Appears to be a "LONG" internal discussion then  ;)  :lol:
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Thomas765 on April 23, 2013, 11:05:17 am
We actually tried turning this forum into a more gaming orientated community but it was shot down afterwards for a variety reasons, the first and main reason for it was the fact that the forum is erepublik.co.uk. I know you're not suggesting a complete transformation from eUK to a simple gaming community but I don't think we will ever have appeal as a gaming community while our primary community is based around a shoddy game that few apparently like. Secondly, the first one was largely unfinished when it was introduced back when Frerk was admin before he quit and came back. I'm not shooting down your idea for gaming forums, I actually like the idea but it's the forum membership that shot it down before and it could be the same again. The idea for that forum was basically to create a whole new category for gaming outside of eRepublik.

But it would be cool to try again if it's actually used. We do have a whole load of people within the community that like to play or watch the same stuff. A noteworthy example that has been a recurring theme for several months now is the Game of Thrones. We even had a forum game dedicated to it before it blew up. Two of our most active topics are Game of Thrones topics. The solution to this would be encouragement to people who like arts, who like sport, who like gaming and so on to use the forum. We can easily split Off Topic Central into other categories again as I think having specific forums for discussion in the past had actually encouraged activity.

I agree with your suggestion about Citizen Advice.

I may also agree with your suggestion about PD and General. We no longer really need PD since congress decided to do away with forum politics several months ago. It's recently been a place to start shitstorms in, which isn't something I generally like to see on my "View New Posts". However, I do like having a place where all those shitstorms can be placed so it means people that like playing the game but don't like the politics can see that forum and simply avoid it, whereas general discussion was always where the gameplay - such as discussion how Ireland are so shit - occurred.

Government forums are a waste of time. The MoHA forum isn't used. The MoFA forum isn't used despite being nagged about changing its leadership for the entirety of the month. Every other forum isn't used either. So we'll see about removing them perhaps. There's no point keeping dead-weight forums around.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: James Keiller on April 23, 2013, 11:32:00 am
Can you please direct me to the how Ireland are so shit discussion. I can't seem to find it.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: BaskB on April 23, 2013, 12:33:06 pm
Quote from: "Thomas765"
We actually tried turning this forum into a more gaming orientated community but it was shot down afterwards for a variety reasons, the first and main reason for it was the fact that the forum is erepublik.co.uk. I know you're not suggesting a complete transformation from eUK to a simple gaming community but I don't think we will ever have appeal as a gaming community while our primary community is based around a shoddy game that few apparently like. Secondly, the first one was largely unfinished when it was introduced back when Frerk was admin before he quit and came back. I'm not shooting down your idea for gaming forums, I actually like the idea but it's the forum membership that shot it down before and it could be the same again. The idea for that forum was basically to create a whole new category for gaming outside of eRepublik.

But it would be cool to try again if it's actually used. We do have a whole load of people within the community that like to play or watch the same stuff. A noteworthy example that has been a recurring theme for several months now is the Game of Thrones. We even had a forum game dedicated to it before it blew up. Two of our most active topics are Game of Thrones topics. The solution to this would be encouragement to people who like arts, who like sport, who like gaming and so on to use the forum. We can easily split Off Topic Central into other categories again as I think having specific forums for discussion in the past had actually encouraged activity.

TBH reading over my comments, in a way they are leaning towards Keers & Goku's sentiments, along with the likes of Carlini.

Not referencing political crap, we do appear to have 2 groups on here, the first group are eRep active, take a big part in it and want to see this go forward, then we have the other group whom have been here a while forged friendships that have led onto other things like gaming/sports etc. and have moved away from erep, of course some will sit in both camps (Talon is a prime example here)

Personally I play erep, but am I an active player? Probably not, I'm a captain in Legion, and do that sort of thing, but I don't use IRC, I don't use the Media Module, and for a longtime I don't really play any part in politics. So although I "play" erep thats pretty much about all it is now. The 2nd group of course I'm a part of being in the eUK minecraft community, note I say the eUK minecraft community and not Minecraft community

So in that respect, take a look at the "OFF Topic" forums and take a leaf out of that book. The people whom are active in them communities are the ones that Moderate it (Boblos House & Minecraft are the examples here), Global Mods and Admin will be required of course but they take a backseat role to the forum Mods.

Erep has now become so simplified you could wrap pretty much all the eUK related forums into 4 or 5 key ones with Stickys & Announcements for things like Rules, Freebie links and so forth. Then let people whom take a very active role ingame mod them.

Expand the gaming/off topic forums into a "Community" section whereby people can get together with other games, have Boblos house etc and moderate them as a group themselves. PROMOTE this is in erepublik, let people know there's a place all us eUK players can hang about in and play other games etc while we wait for out "FF's" to replenish.

Global Mods job is then just to oversee things are ensure Site rules are followed (racism, porn etc etc is still kept off things) and of course provide a complaints chain over the local Mods. Also create new forums and groups as needed.

Site Admin then do what they should do and just Admin the site...

You have a community born out of a game called erepublik, in essence a CLAN as they are referred to. This forum really isn't erepublik.co.uk anymore but more an eUK.co.uk

Either way whatever happens, reducing the MASS of erep related forums that are basically unused is a must!
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 23, 2013, 06:03:18 pm
What did you actually do to promote this forum as a general gaming forum other than move some sub forums around?

BaskB has it right. We need active people building/promoting the forums, not inactive people managing/maintaining them.

It's not our forum to make these choices for and I belive that we need to start thinking about massive change to reinvigorate the eRepublik players efforts, which would be most likely a forum move.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Iain Keers on April 24, 2013, 07:14:45 pm
All this thread has done so far is make Frerk et al moan about Goku and I. I agree we need active, involved players running the forums who actually have a stake in their success. When they stop playing the game, by all means stay on as emeritus members or whatever, but don't run the show. Even Kumnaa has removed his red name, because he knows someone who doesn't play can't admin.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 24, 2013, 10:09:07 pm
Quote from: "Iain Keers"
All this thread has done so far is make Frerk et al moan about Goku and I. I agree we need active, involved players running the forums who actually have a stake in their success. When they stop playing the game, by all means stay on as emeritus members or whatever, but don't run the show. Even Kumnaa has removed his red name, because he knows someone who doesn't play can't admin.
All 3 admins play the game. The only global this applies to is Digby.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 25, 2013, 06:10:44 pm
I think that he means active players not two click. Innovative players not managers.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 25, 2013, 07:05:14 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
I think that he means active players not two click. Innovative players not managers.
Oh hai, Minister of Finance coming off the back of two vCP terms and a Presidential run here, is that active enough?

EDIT:Also, Thomas has some sort of fancy title in TWO....
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 25, 2013, 09:10:49 pm
Quote from: "Butjam"
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
I think that he means active players not two click. Innovative players not managers.
Oh hai, Minister of Finance coming off the back of two vCP terms and a Presidential run here, is that active enough?

EDIT:Also, Thomas has some sort of fancy title in TWO....
So how have you improved forums? Having OTHER jobs just takes up your time and being a finance/diplomacy guy doesn't make you a programmer, recruiter or community builder.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 25, 2013, 10:48:05 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
Quote from: "Butjam"
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
I think that he means active players not two click. Innovative players not managers.
Oh hai, Minister of Finance coming off the back of two vCP terms and a Presidential run here, is that active enough?

EDIT:Also, Thomas has some sort of fancy title in TWO....
So how have you improved forums? Having OTHER jobs just takes up your time and being a finance/diplomacy guy doesn't make you a programmer, recruiter or community builder.
Well it's not like I've tried to make people chat about the problems with the forums.openly, or just tried to be a friendly face in general to try and help out with peoples issues, technical or otherwise.

You wanted people to be active ingame... But now because we've shown that two thirds of the admin team are very involved with day to day life in the game you suddenly narrow your definition. Please, bring me all the programmers, recruiters and community builders you like but I don't want a forum staffed by Mantle and BigAnt
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 25, 2013, 10:51:38 pm
You don't get it.

We don't need mods, we need people to do stuff. You wouldn't have (as your example) Mantle modding, you'd have him adding features to the forums.

You don't need the CP modding, you just need people with an actual interest in the game.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 25, 2013, 11:02:51 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
You don't get it.

We don't need mods, we need people to do stuff. You wouldn't have (as your example) Mantle modding, you'd have him adding features to the forums.

You don't need the CP modding, you just need people with an actual interest in the game.
Christ, what do you actually want added? Oh wait, that would be far too easy for you to say because you wouldn't want people to make any sort of contribution if they're on another 'side' to you. I honestly don't know what you think we do? Apparently multiple logins to Erep aren't good enough for you, nor is active political involvement. You want me to be changing the colour scheme every five days so we can appear hip and trendy? Give us some actual ideas and if they're good, we'll implement them.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Mr Woldy on April 25, 2013, 11:03:16 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
you just need people with an actual interest in the game.

Why?

Let me tell you pplz something. Digby is interested in the game. Because the community is the game. And he is more a participant in the community that exists on these forums than anyone else can claim to be, precisely because he isn't involved in all the shit slinging and neck-wrangling that goes on ingame.

The way I see, his disinterest in the bickering and petty squabbles makes him an ideal mod, and I find it highly ironic that various people who have claimed to be the victim of biased or party-driven over moderation would assert otherwise.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Humphrey Appleby on April 25, 2013, 11:17:13 pm
Quote from: "Mr Woldy"
Because the community is the game.

Aside from beginning the sentence with because, an absolutely excellent point
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 26, 2013, 05:56:56 pm
Looks guys, I get it you want quiet life managing and tell off forum goers. Fine.

I aspire to greater things.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Thedark ace on April 26, 2013, 06:03:48 pm
You say this kind of shite, but you give no examples. You want active players to be admins and such? Well you whined when there was one, you even went as far as to oust him.

The only problems that the forum face is that not enough people use them, or know about them, and they're demonised by certain individuals for political gain.

The Admins/Mods are not the problem. The problem is that you aren't promoting the forums. If you want more people to post with your view on the forums, invite your friends/party colleagues. The forum is just a medium of discussion, that's all it is, and if you really want it to be more successful at giving more information from the whole of the UK or "become less partisan" then go out and get others to use it. It's really that simple kids. After all, the community is the game.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 26, 2013, 06:56:28 pm
Call me old fashioned butI think that the people "employed" to run the forums should be doing that and making the place welcoming and solving these problems?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 26, 2013, 07:19:13 pm
Quote from: "Butjam"
Give us some actual ideas and if they're good, we'll implement them.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 26, 2013, 10:05:49 pm
Read the thread for a start.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 26, 2013, 10:13:55 pm
Honestly, it's like a record on repeat. Heck, I've suggested things only for people to be too busy hate-wanking each other off to pay attention to stuff. You want a dictatorship where we just decide things? That sounds p ridiculous to me seeing as the forums are for everyone, not just the admin/mod team
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Wayne on April 26, 2013, 10:34:00 pm
The users of the forums are the problem imo...
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 26, 2013, 10:47:25 pm
Quote from: "Butjam"
Honestly, it's like a record on repeat. Heck, I've suggested things only for people to be too busy hate-wanking each other off to pay attention to stuff. You want a dictatorship where we just decide things? That sounds p ridiculous to me seeing as the forums are for everyone, not just the admin/mod team
Here is a suggestion programme for you:
1) Implement the almost no modding suggestions you have from almost everyone who did the questionnaire. Now you don't need the gmods so thank then remove them.
2) Replace the gmods with one new one per top 10 party, to catch the occasional porn, advertise the forums and to mediate really bad disputes as a team. Parties could take reponsiblity for the content and activity of forums they choose and could choose to elect their guy. It'd be like a functional HoL or Senate.

3) Get in touch with Kumnaa and have him sell the forums.
4) Replace the forum owner and admins with whoever is paying for the forums, probally a few people. They maintain 1 and 2 but otherwise don't intervene. They would be responsible for pruning our excess forums or adding new content to the forums like more eRepublik info on profiles.

5) Let things evolve from there and listen to feedback. There may actually be a case for legislation now since most users now have access to real functions outside of the game.

Obviously 3) and 4) are dodgy and need more discussion or could be dropped but 1), 2) and 5) you can do right now.



I generally don't post stuff like this anymore as it's a huge waste of time, but there you go since you called me out. Now you can tell me how they are all terrible ideas which will never happen and confirm my wasted time, or choose one out of five you can win an arument on and ignore the rest.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 26, 2013, 11:04:24 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
1) Implement the almost no modding suggestions you have from almost everyone who did the questionnaire. Now you don't need the gmods so thank then remove them.
2) Replace the gmods with one new one per top 10 party, to catch the occasional porn, advertise the forums and to mediate really bad disputes as a team. Parties could take reponsiblity for the content and activity of forums they choose and could choose to elect their guy. It'd be like a functional HoL or Senate.

3) Get in touch with Kumnaa and have him sell the forums.
4) Replace the forum owner and admins with whoever is paying for the forums, probally a few people. They maintain 1 and 2 but otherwise don't intervene. They would be responsible for pruning our excess forums or adding new content to the forums like more eRepublik info on profiles.

5) Let things evolve from there and listen to feedback. There may actually be a case for legislation now since most users now have access to real functions outside of the game.

Obviously 3) and 4) are dodgy and need more discussion or could be dropped but 1), 2) and 5) you can do right now.



I generally don't post stuff like this anymore as it's a huge waste of time, but there you go since you called me out. Now you can tell me how they are all terrible ideas which will never happen and confirm my wasted time, or choose one out of five you can win an arument on and ignore the rest.
1&2-Remove the team we have, replace with 10 new people all politically chosen. Yeah, that's not gonna' happen because you get given moderator powers and access based on trust, ability and forum activity, not what party you're from.
3&4-3 is completely out of our hands, we're not ever going to tell Kumnaa what to do. He's gracious enough to maintain the forums and, at the end of the day, our boss in terms of the team. There is merit to suggesting that we can add more stuff to peoples profile to do with their erep stuff, expand on that and tell us what info you'd like people to be able to add
5-Not going to argue because I don't really understand it. If you're asking us to listen to feedback, what do you think we're doing right now?

And to your last point, what the hell is that supposed to mean? I'm damned if I respond to all of them, I'm damned if I miss any out. You've p much just implied "Don't refute any of my points", at least that's what I read into it.

All in all... you seem to be the only person wanting some kinda' dictatorship around here (or at least one that doesn't bother paying any attention to people)
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 26, 2013, 11:26:20 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
I generally don't post stuff like this anymore as it's a huge waste of time, but there you go since you called me out. Now you can tell me how they are all terrible ideas which will never happen and confirm my wasted time, or choose one out of five you can win an arument on and ignore the rest.
Interesting how suggesting we have 10 gmods (you can adjust access levels!) from across the community handling disputes is a dictatorship, unless you have some odd ideas about the admin/tech side which begs the question what is what we have now!?

At least one per party gives some representation to all groups, it's not like the current or past apointments haven't been politically motivated. No wait, all the best talent is and has always been from mostly UKRP right!? Why do people put so much emphasis on the politics part of the game then treat it as a dirty thing? Some people belive different things, so what?

Well anyway you acted how I said you would, how predictable. I think you just wanted material to argue against really, you have to save face somehow with the Questionnaire results being almost unanimous.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 26, 2013, 11:32:50 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
I generally don't post stuff like this anymore as it's a huge waste of time, but there you go since you called me out. Now you can tell me how they are all terrible ideas which will never happen and confirm my wasted time, or choose one out of five you can win an arument on and ignore the rest.
Interesting how suggesting we have 10 gmods (you can adjust access levels!) from across the community handling disputes is a dictatorship, unless you have some odd ideas about the admin/tech side which begs the question what is what we have now!?

At least one per party gives some representation to all groups, it's not like the current or past apointments haven't been politically motivated. No wait, all the best talent is and has always been from mostly UKRP right!? Why do people put so much emphasis on the politics part of the game then treat it as a dirty thing? Some people belive different things, so what?

Well anyway you acted how I said you would, how predictable. I think you just wanted material to argue against really, you have to save face somehow with the Questionnaire results being almost unanimous.
I acted how you said I would.... by responding? What? I don't see why you bother posting when everything seems to be about confirming yourself and stroking your ego
EDIT: In fact I know exactly why you post, it's because you don't disagree with these forums half as much as you do, except for the fact that you're not immediately getting your way in everything. If you hated them as much as you say,you wouldn't keep coming back or you'd stop trying to drop subtle threats and just go off and make some new ones. You're more than welcome to do either, sorry if it's rude of me to say that. The directions that threads like these take, where even admins like me start being rude are one of the main reasons why people don't want to stick around here.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 26, 2013, 11:44:37 pm
I'll help you out and not respond to that...



So what changes will be implemented now that you have listened to the feedback? If you are not ready what would you personally like to see?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 26, 2013, 11:48:53 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
I'll help you out and not respond to that...



So what changes will be implemented now that you have listened to the feedback? If you are not ready what would you personally like to see?
No, go on, respond. We didn't start a discussion for people to not respond.

From point 4, adding stuff about erep to people's profile. What do you want to see there?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Malkaiser on April 26, 2013, 11:56:31 pm
It's pretty obvious what could be added and it's been done in the past, when you get unbanned take a look at Smack's eRepublik profile. Most people are on other forums with all kinds of systems too.

Meh you just want an argument though. Shame you wouldn't take the constructive door and answer my question. I'm being careful not to put specific examples in as you'll argue against the example rather than the concept to try and win an internet argument.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 27, 2013, 12:05:12 am
Which question? The one about UKRP being in control of everything? Yes, all three admins are UKRP members, but we don't get involved with moderating unless it's an appeal against a decision. Apart from that, there's two UKRP members who are on the moderating team, one from a very long line of service and one who was the best applicant in the most recent selections.

All I see to be added, without cluttering it up, is a link to the profile and maybe some of their stats. And I'm already unbanned, thanks for your concern
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar on April 27, 2013, 02:08:32 am
Dear Messrs. Butjam and Jones,

I hate to come back into this thread but I'd like to raise some questions amongst this (and based off your second suggestion, Goku).

If having figures and community leaders/builders/whatever is what's generally accepted as the solution to improving the community (and, by extension, the forum) as established members and people to advertise and do all these things, then why do they need to either a) be in the form of a moderator team or b) replace one?

The following things specifically strike me from the overall tone of what has been suggested around moderators:

1) Please don't take this as me saying that moderators are mutually exclusive roles to community figures/buidlers/wizards/czars (whatever they might be called), but why is the role of moderators being called into question and being deemed as insufficient? Moderators serve the function of moderating; we're basically forum handymen and keep things tidy. Forgive my ignorance, but has the role of figures for the community not historically been filled by simply figures of the community? (Usually party leaders/directors, game philanthropists and established members of the community in general [oldfags]).

I've no doubt there have been some who filled both of these positions or roles, but why is it explicitly being expected that moderators (a team who are given power on the forum for the purpose of maintaining and moderating it) should also be advertisers and figures in-game for people to listen to -- which, in my experience, used to predominantly be people who led parties or just tried to put in effort into the game in getting more people involved. I remember being a PP and active member of a party and pretty much the most important objective for good direction was to be encouraging new people to become involved and be active members of the community. As a PP this has the benefit of not only getting the name of your party out there and hopefully getting people into it but also improving the community as a whole. The newbies that you educate in the hope of bringing them up as active members of the community often eventually do so. Again, this is just from my experience, but the first line of community builders is usually also party builders.

2) Is it really necessary that there be an established and authoritative collection of people who are these community builders on the forum? I'm not calling into question that the community would benefit if there were more people who were more focused on advertising the community, etc., but why must that role or even responsibility be thrown at the moderating team of the forum?

So far all I can figure out for myself as the reasoning behind this is that it's in our interest as a team to have a more active forum to moderate - and indeed, if its necessary to cut down on moderating as a whole or even the number of moderators to help this I'm all for it - but is it not also in the interest of party leaders, figureheads of the community and by extension every active member of the community equally? Unless I'm missing something important here, I don't see why it's necessary that "you need to be responsible for improving the community" be exclusively applied to moderators, whereas from my (out of touch and utterly useless) view, it can also be applied to everyone - or certainly those who wish for an improvement.

Sincerely,
Digby
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Dishmcds on April 27, 2013, 06:36:36 am
Since I went out and called out Digby when I felt like he was being argumentative and a little over the top, I'm going to do it now too. Goku, shut up and stop being an argumentative little [bad word]. You have a thread to make good suggestions in that people actually want to listen to. "Replace Kumnaa with someone who likes me" is not a good suggestion, and frankly it doesn't matter than he doesn't play or come on much anymore. He's not part of the administration that runs, maintains, and builds the forums. He pays the bills.

Frankly, you should be thankful that he does so without actually asking much, like you showing him just a little respect and gratitude.

Now, let's go through your other suggestion. "Remove all forum mods" and "add 10 new ones". If this is a community it doesn't matter where we come from, and your fantasy about "party affiliation" is frankly getting annoying. While you might prefer the political piece of this game because you can lie to everyone and get away with it because lolgamemechanics, politics is not everything. Frankly, I'm happy that our forum mods are not really political. If we had 14 people who were all "politically motivated", we'd have people with the same powers banning each other on every election cycle because of those very same politics.

This has nothing to do with eUK politics. This has to do with two things.

1. There needs to be a team of people who actively promote the forums in game. They do not have to have any actual power, although perhaps they could be on a forum improvement committee of some sort, involved in promoting the forums, giving ideas for sprucing up the look and layouts, etc.

2. The forum administration also needs to work on its version of what the rules are and update them. If we're going to ask the annoying little fgts like Goku and Sir Scott Williamson (who apparently thinks he's cool) to be "better" than what they have, then the other parts of this forum have to work on it as well and meet them half way.

Perhaps that'll make them semi-annoying or something, but if both parties here don't calm the flower down, and stop being themselves (looking at Goku here, take your pills, fgt), then I've got an entirely different set of suggestions.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Bohemond4 on April 27, 2013, 06:47:49 am
I agree with Dish...


The changes I would make are:

loosen the Mod rules across the board and restrict to porno and the like, ban for multis, add a like button on posts and a rep counter for users, including +/- Also, get more advertising ingame.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Wayne on April 27, 2013, 08:27:14 am
Can we not just ban the whiny bitches and be done with it?
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Dishmcds on April 27, 2013, 08:36:10 am
Quote from: "WayneKerr"
Can we not just ban the whiny bitches and be done with it?

That'd be the "entirely different set of suggestions". We're either going to go all inclusive, and both sides are going to make the effort required both here and in game (and stop talking about it, ie Goku and TinyCockroach who do nothing but "I MADE SUGGESTIONS NOW YOU DO THE WORK"), or we go entirely Nazi and just ban them and all unite to make them move to Japan and start some Anime party together.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Wayne on April 27, 2013, 08:46:40 am
Quote from: "Dishmcds"
Quote from: "WayneKerr"
Can we not just ban the whiny bitches and be done with it?

That'd be the "entirely different set of suggestions". We're either going to go all inclusive, and both sides are going to make the effort required both here and in game (and stop talking about it, ie Goku and TinyCockroach who do nothing but "I MADE SUGGESTIONS NOW YOU DO THE WORK"), or we go entirely Nazi and just ban them and all unite to make them move to Japan and start some Anime party together.

Well when Wayne and Dish agree, you know it must be a pretty darn good idea...
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Frerk on April 27, 2013, 08:55:49 am
Quote from: "Bohemond4"
I agree with Dish...


The changes I would make are:

loosen the Mod rules across the board and restrict to porno and the like, ban for multis, add a like button on posts and a rep counter for users, including +/- Also, get more advertising ingame.
We're having new rules, and I'll try to get kumnaa to install a like button and rep counter.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Dan Moir on April 27, 2013, 10:38:08 am
Quote from: "WayneKerr"
Can we not just ban the whiny bitches and be done with it?

Now there's an idea.  I wonder why nobody ever thought of that :roll:

When Frerk and kumnaa decided that it was really important to listen to BigAnt and Goku then any chance of a friendly community disappeared.
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Niemand on April 27, 2013, 11:47:14 am
Quote from: "Dan Moir"
Quote from: "WayneKerr"
Can we not just ban the whiny bitches and be done with it?

Now there's an idea.  I wonder why nobody ever thought of that :roll:

When Frerk and kumnaa decided that it was really important to listen to BigAnt and Goku then any chance of a friendly community disappeared.

At least there have been a lot of effort to get them on board from one side. It seems from their side it is still whining. Their choice I think. Killing the friendly community was collateral from the forum side. Time to take steps to get a more friendly community. I would love to use the like/dislike buttons.  :)
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Butjam on April 27, 2013, 04:04:52 pm
...Actual constructive ideas? Please, give me a few minutes guys..... it took 6 pages but we're finally there! I need some time alone.....
Title: Re: Questionnaire discussion
Post by: Smack on April 27, 2013, 07:36:44 pm
Quote from: "Goku Jones"
It's pretty obvious what could be added and it's been done in the past, when you get unbanned take a look at Smack's eRepublik profile.

Wat?