eRepublik UK

Erepublik => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kravenn on June 15, 2014, 01:59:35 pm

Title: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Kravenn on June 15, 2014, 01:59:35 pm
I was quite curious about from where were coming all BigAnt's votes.
I don't hide it : I checked vendetta feed and I discovered that

(http://i.imgur.com/11nPLM0.png)

What does Gov will do ? They accept what happen or are decided to stop it ?
What are these "supports" ? I already saw Wayne voted for BigAnt. BigAnt gave a CS to a guy and he probably voted for him on TUP ?

Does eUK cabinet really want to see the largest party on the hands of enemies (serbia in on the other alliance). TUP + vendetta on hostile hands = they could block all Natural enemy laws.
If they have more than 13 congress members and are able to elect their own CP : impossible to impeach

Most of the time : TUP + Vendetta = more than 20 congress members. So, it will be possible to make donations to foreign national banks ...

What are intentions of the cabinet ?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Big Ant on June 15, 2014, 02:37:05 pm
I would like to mark my return to the forums (After having a chat with Butjam) With a reply to this message from Kravenn.

1) You blame the government for this? This is your own fault
2) You are the only one crying why? Because you know like everyone else, I WILL NOT give you congress! I will pick a young TUPer instead!
3) What goes around comes around kravenn.

You where the fuel behind the PTO of NewEra, you tried and in the end failed to stop an group of active players.
However will all know TUP arent active, you are the cancer of UK. You say jockson kills players, I disagree.. you are worse.

You use new players to remain number 1 for 5 years, to keep yourself in government.

Today that ends. The era of Kravenn dominating congress at the expense of new young players.

That is all.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 15, 2014, 02:39:20 pm
Quote
Recently, a law was proposed by a TUP member regarding banning every member of another party in congress from those messages, while it was a bit undemocratic and most definitely not the best thing to do, it passed and something had to be done.

It is being corrected now.

The problem is, the very individuals who seek to stifle democracy and any opposition are leading your party at the moment and if not directly leading, doing what your elected representatives want to do. They’re shaping its policy and claiming to represent you all.

Whilst that is a matter in itself for you members of TUP the problem is that they are supporting a Political Take Over of any other party that opposes them and their rule of the country and freely bringing in enemy combatants to have success in elections.

It’s possible they’re under the impression that groups from that state simply support their view and wish to see them in power, however the truth is far from it and once they gain majority in congress, they will not care about you or anyone in UK for the matter but simply their Polish friends & their Polish resources.

This situation is getting out of hand and even though the people assisting PTO very happily call disregarding elected members and stifling opposition as defending democracy, let me make this absolutely clear, any party working with foreign nations to take over UK will not be entertained.

If you guys love your party and wish to see it serve as an honest member of the eUK community, I would recommend you to elect someone from your own party who’s NOT implicit in supporting a take over of UK. We will not let UK’s treasury be wiped again and our country made fun of by the whole world or the slave of any one nation!


Our fight is with the people who’re actively supporting such actions and continually rob the country, We hope that once freed of your corrupt leadership and their pillaging of your taxes - You will find the courage and ability amongst yourselves to elect decent, hardworking leaders.


1) Open letter citing faults and greivances.
2) Parachute in a leader/candidate.
3) Use members of other parties to dive the vote.
4) Reforming party by driving out founders or existing leaders.


Based on a precedent that was recently set....................this seems legit?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sambo112 on June 15, 2014, 02:50:58 pm
Well one positive out of this. It's brought both BigAnt and alfa back too the forums
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 15, 2014, 02:54:04 pm
I voted Alfragrem but wish I knew about this. TUP opened pandoras box by:

Supporting last years UKPP PTO (which they did not deserve) and rewarding the culprits with Ministries and CP.

Supporting the New Era PTO (ok maybe THAT congress list was too far) but demanding a non New Eta PP destroying its credibility.

I think people saw Vendettas congress list this time being more balanced and are starting to see TUP (and its sense of entitlement) as the problem.

If you want to stop PTO then stop supporting them yourselves. Nobody is fooled by your political excuses.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 15, 2014, 03:03:27 pm
(In reply to Sambo)
I actually came back as I've had some chats with one of the mods about getting this place stream-lined a bit and possibly therefore promoting its use after any overhaul.

I've been lurking for weeks but not got involved as every thread ends up a rehash of the last thread.

<Also the Captcha thing is annoying>


(UKPP Position and forgive the para-phrasing)
Any member can use their vote as they see fit in any elections and are not bound to any party or national whip.


(On-Topic)
Everyone saw this coming and its safe to assume that TUP have some kind of multi-step plan ready to be implemented;

1) Mass-Spam members
2) Mass Spam allied parties
3) Import voters
4) Mass Reporting of any and all accounts
5) Complaining to whigs
6) Recall any votes from lurkers in other parties
7) At the last minute change the party name to "Move to TUP' and start another party called 'TUP' (thus preserving the name)

So, Unless TUP was dumb enough to be caught by surprise I can only assume this and any subsequent media is another attempt to drag the rest of us into your dirty little war and make us choose between 'them or 'that lot'.

Gov, other parties, MUs and any other group would do well to not sanctify any of this poo-poo by paying it attention.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sambo112 on June 15, 2014, 03:21:35 pm
fair enough good to have you back anyway :p
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 15, 2014, 03:43:52 pm
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8om6hKD4Y1rwcc6bo1_500.gif)
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 15, 2014, 03:58:18 pm
If someone wants to PTO a party and they have enough support they can do it. I should care more than I do, but I think the overall vulnerability to PTO in the UK top 5 is indicative of the decline of the UK in general.

Other top 5 parties can expect this in future too, but if TUP does fall it'll be an end of an era. Some of you might celebrate that, I'm sure. Personally I think the only loser will be the UK.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 15, 2014, 04:09:04 pm
Other Top 5 parties have been through it lately. Yourselves, UKPP, PCP and New Era have all seen the parties PP taken by someone they don't deem to be worthy of it in recent months.  The eUK will survive without one of your boys in control of the party for a month, just like the other month.  The sky didn't fall upon us then. So stop being so melodramatic. 
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Butjam on June 15, 2014, 04:28:52 pm
Captcha is gome after 5 posts Alfa, had to deal with a load of spam a few months ago and purge then with fire. So many offers for cheap kitchens...

On topic, surely TUP has enough in-house votes to stop a PTO anyway? Even if it does succeed, I hope BA keeps prickishness to a minimum and follows through on the promise of electing TUP members in the congress list
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sambo112 on June 15, 2014, 04:53:25 pm
Captcha is gome after 5 posts Alfa, had to deal with a load of spam a few months ago and purge then with fire. So many offers for cheap kitchens...

On topic, surely TUP has enough in-house votes to stop a PTO anyway? Even if it does succeed, I hope BA keeps prickishness to a minimum and follows through on the promise of electing TUP members in the congress list

Damn been wanting to refit my kitchen for ages now :P

Also BA has taken the lead so maybe TUP doesn't have enough to hold this off. I feel Vendetta may not be as nice to TUP as Mwc was a couple months ago
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Chaznoodles on June 15, 2014, 05:10:23 pm
Personally, I believe that if Vendetta truly wanted to be regarded as the 'opposition' and as a political party, they would've played this normally, rather than resorting to underhand tactics such as PTOing the TUP. TO me, this makes them look like they won't play by the rules to win, thereby ruining the enjoyment for others.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 15, 2014, 05:15:00 pm
Problem is that we have no respect for "the rules" since TUP and friends make up and demand rules  which they don't follow themselves.

There's been one too many TUP supported PTO and multi account to play fair with them.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Big Ant on June 15, 2014, 05:19:52 pm
Personally, I believe that if Vendetta truly wanted to be regarded as the 'opposition' and as a political party, they would've played this normally, rather than resorting to underhand tactics such as PTOing the TUP. TO me, this makes them look like they won't play by the rules to win, thereby ruining the enjoyment for others.

Sorry you weren't saying that last month :D

Hypocrite
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 15, 2014, 06:02:04 pm
Personally, I believe that if Vendetta truly wanted to be regarded as the 'opposition' and as a political party, they would've played this normally, rather than resorting to underhand tactics such as PTOing the TUP. TO me, this makes them look like they won't play by the rules to win, thereby ruining the enjoyment for others.

Which rules are you refering to?

eRules > The fact they can do it, are doing it and others have done it shows, without needing to reference them, that the rules allow for this.

Community rules > They are paying back their enemies in the same coin. To say one 'side' can do it yet the other is not allowed is dumb, wrong and/or highly hypocritical.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 15, 2014, 07:02:53 pm
To be honest if BigAnt does win, it'll be quite liberating for me. For the last couple years I really haven't enjoyed being in the UK, and I know a lot of TUPers feel the same way. TUP has been the only thing keeping us all here really. I think that the attitude from almost all sides has been pretty much "we hate TUP" for a while now though. Well, I guess you'll probably get your way. Even if we do win, I don't really want to work to benefit people who hate us.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 15, 2014, 07:16:37 pm
If the eUK is pretty much 'we hate TUP' then TUP need to have a long hard look at why the eUK thinks that.  Unless of course it's cuz we are all ungrateful bastards...
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 15, 2014, 07:18:51 pm
We see you guys playing the alliance game to benefit yourselves, the UK not so much?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sir Humphrey Appleby on June 15, 2014, 07:33:46 pm
Despite the reservations of Kravenn, the government wasn't privy to this PTO (nor does it support it)

However various TUP bigwigs chanting they're going to jump ship hardly motivates their community to aid them either...
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Dan Moir on June 15, 2014, 07:37:51 pm
Despite the reservations of Kravenn, the government wasn't privy to this PTO (nor does it support it)

However various TUP bigwigs chanting they're going to jump ship hardly motivates their community to aid them either...

That's helpful.  Keep up the good work  :roll:
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 15, 2014, 07:41:01 pm
They are probably confident enough on their foreign support now to keep themselves in alliance jobs without needing a UK powerbase.

Wouldn't be surprised if they started tanking against us after the imminent alliance shifts.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sir Humphrey Appleby on June 15, 2014, 07:45:45 pm
Despite the reservations of Kravenn, the government wasn't privy to this PTO (nor does it support it)

However various TUP bigwigs chanting they're going to jump ship hardly motivates their community to aid them either...

That's helpful.  Keep up the good work  :roll:

With pleasure. Good luck in the election
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 15, 2014, 07:55:32 pm
Despite the reservations of Kravenn, the government wasn't privy to this PTO (nor does it support it)


Sounds like I should retract my earlier statement about this happening being obvious to everyone.



P. S Die Captcha Die.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Dan Moir on June 15, 2014, 07:59:35 pm
Despite the reservations of Kravenn, the government wasn't privy to this PTO (nor does it support it)

However various TUP bigwigs chanting they're going to jump ship hardly motivates their community to aid them either...

That's helpful.  Keep up the good work  :roll:

With pleasure. Good luck in the election

Well if you're not even attempting to assist with an ATO then you are seriously neglecting the country.  I'm not sure why you would even find it amusing that TUP is taken over but even if you do, you should realise the consequences of Vendetta controlling the top 2 parties.  Whichever way you look at it, it's bad for eUK.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 15, 2014, 08:01:58 pm
Oops supporting Appleby for months and months of poor CP and Minister terms isn't paying dividends now is it? :lol:
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 15, 2014, 08:09:56 pm
Looking beyond all the "OMG PTO" Hype lets look at this going forwards.


1) TUP win = BA crys and we carry on doing what we're doing for another month at least and then TUP will probably do the minimum needed to guard against this next time out.


2) BA wins;

i) The active TUP either quit, die or flee. This woulda happened eventually thru sheer attrition and there is a benifit in it happening 'at a stroke' as it gives the nation a definitive bookmark and ending of one era and we can all move onwards together rather then watching and managing a gradual decline.

We'd lose damage and whatnot that the current quit Britian lot would take with them but with one side defeated then perhaps we can actually move on.


ii) They stay as active voting members of party id#163 or original TUP.

If the party is a united community of friendships and regular contacts then the 'elites' would retain an element of voter control and would be able to send them off to vote for UKRP, PCP, WRP etc... thus keeping their enemies numbers in congress limited as they are now stretched across 2 parties. Perhaps they can trade this assistance into help to take their party back and its victory TUP in a month.


If they're not actual a strong community then Vendetta can sneak more seats, grant more passes (should they choose) and do what they like.

If the results of that are horribad then (having taken a lovely rest) the TUP oldguard can whiteknight back into a nation with all sins forgiven, humble apologies and some goodwill. If nothing really changes then life goes on without them.


iii) They simply start or TO another party and rename that TUP and pretty much do what vendetta did.


Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Niemand on June 15, 2014, 08:28:32 pm
Oops supporting Appleby for months and months of poor CP and Minister terms isn't paying dividends now is it? :lol:
Seems your information is others than mine.

Whatever you all think of this, I think solidarity is a key factor in a nation. BigAnt claims that the ATO/PTO on NewEra was made by TUP. My idea was that it was the eUK community that acted against NewEra letting in more and more Shoe people. Seems I was wrong, it was TUP and there is no eUK common sense. Sad thing I think. :(
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 15, 2014, 08:39:29 pm
Oops supporting Appleby for months and months of poor CP and Minister terms isn't paying dividends now is it? :lol:
Seems your information is others than mine.

Whatever you all think of this, I think solidarity is a key factor in a nation. BigAnt claims that the ATO/PTO on NewEra was made by TUP. My idea was that it was the eUK community that acted against NewEra letting in more and more Shoe people. Seems I was wrong, it was TUP and there is no eUK common sense. Sad thing I think. :(

It's also the eUK community that has gone 'meh' to the ATO/PTO.

Any proof these players are Shoe people or are you just repeating a rumour you have heard?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sambo112 on June 15, 2014, 08:40:25 pm
How is it the gov's job to run an ATO for a party it doesn't control and a party which didn't ask for an ATO. It's too late now you should have contacted ages ago when you knew BigAnt was running
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Big Ant on June 15, 2014, 08:43:03 pm

He slams UK for his failures.

Then he did this...
http://prntscr.com/3t55yd


Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 15, 2014, 08:51:27 pm
How is it the gov's job to run an ATO for a party it doesn't control and a party which didn't ask for an ATO. It's too late now you should have contacted ages ago when you knew BigAnt was running

OP seems to suggest it was the numbers they were not ready for but then again they don't seem to have prepared at all in the ways you'd normally expect to do so for an internal PTO.

Perhaps someone from TUP could clarify wheter they were ready in some fashion?


Then again its late in the RL day and gaps too large etc... and its rather boring now.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Dan Moir on June 15, 2014, 09:20:42 pm
How is it the gov's job to run an ATO for a party it doesn't control and a party which didn't ask for an ATO.

Oh, I don't know.  Maybe to help stop a further influx of Serbs, followed by full PTO and the inevitable decline into a small country with no influence or military support at all.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 15, 2014, 09:21:24 pm
already declined into that Dan...
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sambo112 on June 15, 2014, 09:52:44 pm
How is it the gov's job to run an ATO for a party it doesn't control and a party which didn't ask for an ATO.

Oh, I don't know.  Maybe to help stop a further influx of Serbs, followed by full PTO and the inevitable decline into a small country with no influence or military support at all.

Okay five little points for you Dan

1) Gov isn't in control of your party. That should be you
2) If you'd of asked for help from the gov early on (as in the day you saw BA was running so they had time to organise) they might of helped
3) Congress has CS passes not cabinet members
4) UK has already declined into a small military country (see leaderboards in game)
5) Buy more tissues for your tears
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 15, 2014, 09:53:22 pm
How is it the gov's job to run an ATO for a party it doesn't control and a party which didn't ask for an ATO.

Oh, I don't know.  Maybe to help stop a further influx of Serbs, followed by full PTO and the inevitable decline into a small country with no influence or military support at all.

Wait didn't TUP refuse to take part in the New Era ATO?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 15, 2014, 10:30:16 pm
I don't know why everyone thinks we're going to be crying. It'll be a massive relief for me at least to no longer have any responsibilities towards a country which has been nothing but negative towards me for years now.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 15, 2014, 10:39:31 pm
you sound like a broken man Keers...
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Dan Moir on June 15, 2014, 10:40:10 pm
How is it the gov's job to run an ATO for a party it doesn't control and a party which didn't ask for an ATO.

Oh, I don't know.  Maybe to help stop a further influx of Serbs, followed by full PTO and the inevitable decline into a small country with no influence or military support at all.

Okay five little points for you Dan

1) Gov isn't in control of your party. That should be you
2) If you'd of asked for help from the gov early on (as in the day you saw BA was running so they had time to organise) they might of helped
3) Congress has CS passes not cabinet members
4) UK has already declined into a small military country (see leaderboards in game)
5) Buy more tissues for your tears

1) This isn't just about TUP.  If you don't see the implications for the country then you're an idiot.  Well, you're an idiot anyway but even more so if you don't see the implications for the country.
2) Or they might not have because they're more interested in short term lulz than long term national security.  Also, please stop using of instead of have.  It helps to prove you are an idiot.
3) Pretty much an irrelevant point, although with control of the top 2 parties you would expect Vendetta's share of congress to grow.  Even more reason to ATO.  Only an idiot would raise this as an argument against helping ATO TUP.
4) In terms of damage we are relatively small.  In terms of influence and the assistance we've been able to get from our allies we are well regarded.  Only an idiot wouldn't see us losing this as a problem.
5) You're an idiot.  I care far less than you think, especially about things that are said by idiots.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Big Ant on June 15, 2014, 10:44:26 pm
How is it the gov's job to run an ATO for a party it doesn't control and a party which didn't ask for an ATO.

Oh, I don't know.  Maybe to help stop a further influx of Serbs, followed by full PTO and the inevitable decline into a small country with no influence or military support at all.

Okay five little points for you Dan

1) Gov isn't in control of your party. That should be you
2) If you'd of asked for help from the gov early on (as in the day you saw BA was running so they had time to organise) they might of helped
3) Congress has CS passes not cabinet members
4) UK has already declined into a small military country (see leaderboards in game)
5) Buy more tissues for your tears

1) This isn't just about TUP.  If you don't see the implications for the country then you're an idiot.  Well, you're an idiot anyway but even more so if you don't see the implications for the country.
2) Or they might not have because they're more interested in short term lulz than long term national security.  Also, please stop using of instead of have.  It helps to prove you are an idiot.
3) Pretty much an irrelevant point, although with control of the top 2 parties you would expect Vendetta's share of congress to grow.  Even more reason to ATO.  Only an idiot would raise this as an argument against helping ATO TUP.
4) In terms of damage we are relatively small.  In terms of influence and the assistance we've been able to get from our allies we are well regarded.  Only an idiot wouldn't see us losing this as a problem.
5) You're an idiot.  I care far less than you think, especially about things that are said by idiots.

Dan your attitude here, pretty much sums up why people don't help you. Why they stopped caring about your opinion many months ago.

You're not a nice guy, you are a nasty piece of work. As many will support that you have targeted.

TUP are voting for me, your own members, they dont want you anymore. So.. your pretty an idiot yourself for thinking you own UK and that any owes you anything..
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Niemand on June 15, 2014, 10:52:33 pm
How is it the gov's job to run an ATO for a party it doesn't control and a party which didn't ask for an ATO.

Oh, I don't know.  Maybe to help stop a further influx of Serbs, followed by full PTO and the inevitable decline into a small country with no influence or military support at all.

Okay five little points for you Dan

1) Gov isn't in control of your party. That should be you
2) If you'd of asked for help from the gov early on (as in the day you saw BA was running so they had time to organise) they might of helped
3) Congress has CS passes not cabinet members
4) UK has already declined into a small military country (see leaderboards in game)
5) Buy more tissues for your tears

1) This isn't just about TUP.  If you don't see the implications for the country then you're an idiot.  Well, you're an idiot anyway but even more so if you don't see the implications for the country.
2) Or they might not have because they're more interested in short term lulz than long term national security.  Also, please stop using of instead of have.  It helps to prove you are an idiot.
3) Pretty much an irrelevant point, although with control of the top 2 parties you would expect Vendetta's share of congress to grow.  Even more reason to ATO.  Only an idiot would raise this as an argument against helping ATO TUP.
4) In terms of damage we are relatively small.  In terms of influence and the assistance we've been able to get from our allies we are well regarded.  Only an idiot wouldn't see us losing this as a problem.
5) You're an idiot.  I care far less than you think, especially about things that are said by idiots.

Dan your attitude here, pretty much sums up why people don't help you. Why the stopped caring about your opinion many months ago.

You're not a nice guy, you are a nasty piece of work. As many will support that you have targeted.

TUP are voting for me, your own members, they dont want you anymore. So.. your pretty an idiot yourself for thinking you own UK and that any owes you anything..
Yes sure it must be TUP members that are voting for you (the nicest ant in the eUK) because it is by rules of the game only members of a party can vote for the party president. That said, it is just a coincidence that your votes went up in 30 minutes by 24 after it was said in V to join TUP and vote for BigAnt. Isn't it that almost all the votes for Lord Farhan are from PTO-ers that doesn't like BigAnt because there are so much votes in this PP election?

Oops supporting Appleby for months and months of poor CP and Minister terms isn't paying dividends now is it? :lol:
Seems your information is others than mine.

Whatever you all think of this, I think solidarity is a key factor in a nation. BigAnt claims that the ATO/PTO on NewEra was made by TUP. My idea was that it was the eUK community that acted against NewEra letting in more and more Shoe people. Seems I was wrong, it was TUP and there is no eUK common sense. Sad thing I think. :(

It's also the eUK community that has gone 'meh' to the ATO/PTO.

Any proof these players are Shoe people or are you just repeating a rumour you have heard?
About meh: You are repeating what I said in my post.
About proof: I already said that it seemed that I was wrong.
Concluding: I do not understand at all what the usefulness of Wayne's reply is, but whatever.

Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Big Ant on June 15, 2014, 10:54:37 pm
Yes TUP are voting for me, 14 now actually from those who contacted me.

Ofc I won't be releasing their names as a show of respect.
Also you would target them, like you have in the past.

Time to go nasty party
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sambo112 on June 15, 2014, 10:55:01 pm
1) This isn't just about TUP.  If you don't see the implications for the country then you're an idiot.  Well, you're an idiot anyway but even more so if you don't see the implications for the country.
2) Or they might not have because they're more interested in short term lulz than long term national security.  Also, please stop using of instead of have.  It helps to prove you are an idiot.
3) Pretty much an irrelevant point, although with control of the top 2 parties you would expect Vendetta's share of congress to grow.  Even more reason to ATO.  Only an idiot would raise this as an argument against helping ATO TUP.
4) In terms of damage we are relatively small.  In terms of influence and the assistance we've been able to get from our allies we are well regarded.  Only an idiot wouldn't see us losing this as a problem.
5) You're an idiot.  I care far less than you think, especially about things that are said by idiots.

If you don't care then why are you replying?lol.

If TUP was that bothered about the 'implications for the country' then they would have done something about this. Sadly you care more about the party and sat and watched it all burn. Oh well. As for the rest of what you said you lost any argument you made because it was the classic 'you made a grammar error' and 'you're an idiot', which is pretty childish and just makes me laugh to be honest.

While I don't support a PTO I really think you're getting a bit too dramatic and OTT on this issue that eUK is gonna collapse etc etc.

The country isn't a big military powerhouse anyway and will be able to cope without TUP because there are other parties and people that also know how to play this game and click buttons at the right time. If the majority of people want it this way then who are we to argue with them. You guys in TUP do want democracy right? In a weird way this is a form of democracy. The people are voting.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 15, 2014, 10:57:41 pm
Your the idiot Dan, the attitude you and your ilk display daily is one of the reasons we have this ongoing problem.

Would be better if you shut up and fucked off with the rest of the butthurt TUP crew.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/298ce3e89b2d2ca0f351a169797edcbd/tumblr_mhdcgnGOnf1s2gg27o1_500.gif)
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Talon Karrde on June 15, 2014, 11:01:54 pm
Well this is a fun thread to get back to at the end of my birthday :P


Do I regret that my being out with the GF all weekend pigging out, drinking, watching football etc prevented me from being here to fight this? Haha, not on your life!




That said, happy father's day Iain, you're like my erep dad. If TUP does go under today, thanks for the memories!



As for me, will anything change? No. Still fight for the UK, still pop up now and then and offer advice and support, and still continue to enjoy a whisky before turning friendly uncle Ned mode on!



Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Dan Moir on June 15, 2014, 11:04:17 pm
Your the idiot Dan

*You're
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 15, 2014, 11:08:20 pm
Your the idiot Dan

*You're

Is that all you have?  Surely you can do better than that Dan.  Or have you given up like the rest of TUP?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Niemand on June 15, 2014, 11:24:08 pm
Yes TUP are voting for me, 14 now actually from those who contacted me.

Ofc I won't be releasing their names as a show of respect.
Also you would target them, like you have in the past.

Time to go nasty party
14 isn't a majority at all. With your Serbian friends and others you have majority.

I agree time to go.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 15, 2014, 11:29:34 pm
You already left Niemand...

If y'all can't handle it, don't dish it out.

Moral of the story here.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 15, 2014, 11:36:48 pm
I just lol at the halfwits who think the UK's limited success this past few years stems from an ability to push buttons...
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Big Ant on June 15, 2014, 11:43:15 pm
I just lol at the halfwits who think the UK's limited success this past few years stems from an ability to push buttons...

Well based on the amount of hate for you and Kravenn.. Clearly you power grabbing In Foreign aspects has tired like it has at home.

Nobody wants you. 3 offer aboard.. ok mate :D
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Joffrey Baratheon on June 15, 2014, 11:43:25 pm
Despite the reservations of Kravenn, the government wasn't privy to this PTO (nor does it support it)

However various TUP bigwigs chanting they're going to jump ship hardly motivates their community to aid them either...

'in my capacity as Dictator I declare Keers an Enemy of the State and appoint BigAnt to lead this month’s ATO of his dangerous political group.'

HueHue. Ain't so amusing now huh?

Weak Apples was weak.

People will call it butthurt when the most active of TUP decide to leave the eUK Asylum to be run by the patients, But given the constant attacks they've had (and yes inc. myself over the years) can't much blame them.

Goku you can claim that TUPs alliance politics only benefited themselves but the fact the eUK has avoided wipes for the most part and been in strong stable alliances is what their involvement in the alliance gave to the eUK. Whether it benefited them or not, It benefited the eUK as well.

Beyond pleasuring serb gonads what exactly do this new elite trying to talk control have to offer in way of connections and reputation internationally?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 15, 2014, 11:57:18 pm
Which alliance has been stable?  ONE was a ego clusterfuck, TWO was a ego clusterfuck and Sirius... lol

Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Metapod on June 16, 2014, 12:06:07 am
Oh noes, we're gonna have to go outside now. What a travesty.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Diakun on June 16, 2014, 12:08:04 am
I just lol at the halfwits who think the UK's limited success this past few years stems from an ability to push buttons...

Well based on the amount of hate for you and Kravenn.. Clearly you power grabbing In Foreign aspects has tired like it has at home.

Nobody wants you. 3 offer aboard.. ok mate :D
lol when essentially all the hate is from you and dapper
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Big Ant on June 16, 2014, 12:57:18 am
(http://i2.wp.com/www.journaldugeek.com/files/2013/12/indiana-jones-popcorn-reaction-gif-1.gif)

Talon started all this :3
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Prof Moriarty on June 16, 2014, 01:20:46 am
Its all shaping up for my ebirthday CP run.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sir Humphrey Appleby on June 16, 2014, 01:37:02 am
'in my capacity as Dictator I declare Keers an Enemy of the State and appoint BigAnt to lead this month’s ATO of his dangerous political group.'

HueHue. Ain't so amusing now huh?

Weak Apples was weak.

It is even more amusing given it came true; apparently I should upgrade from mere dictator to Prophet.

Nice to see you back anyway, even if it's still in a sponsored role :p
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 16, 2014, 06:36:15 am
Despite the reservations of Kravenn, the government wasn't privy to this PTO (nor does it support it)

However various TUP bigwigs chanting they're going to jump ship hardly motivates their community to aid them either...

'in my capacity as Dictator I declare Keers an Enemy of the State and appoint BigAnt to lead this month’s ATO of his dangerous political group.'

HueHue. Ain't so amusing now huh?

Weak Apples was weak.

People will call it butthurt when the most active of TUP decide to leave the eUK Asylum to be run by the patients, But given the constant attacks they've had (and yes inc. myself over the years) can't much blame them.

Goku you can claim that TUPs alliance politics only benefited themselves but the fact the eUK has avoided wipes for the most part and been in strong stable alliances is what their involvement in the alliance gave to the eUK. Whether it benefited them or not, It benefited the eUK as well.

Beyond pleasuring serb gonads what exactly do this new elite trying to talk control have to offer in way of connections and reputation internationally?

Er they got us wiped for 6 months which caused the rebellion last year. Now we get wiped every other month.

Our allies keep changing, not stable at all...
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 16, 2014, 06:50:17 am
We also cause the sun to rise every morning and monkeys to reproduce. You're such a stupid donger sometimes Goku.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 16, 2014, 07:49:36 am
We also cause the sun to rise every morning and monkeys to reproduce. You're such a stupid donger sometimes Goku.

Appleby said that TUP leadership produced stable alliances and avoided wipes. I pointed out that he was wrong. Your reading comprehension is terrible Iain.

If you mock the point of view that you guys are responsible for failed foreign policy like its totally out of control like the sun rising, then all that "good" foreign policy you bang on about must be out of your control and just a fluke too?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 16, 2014, 08:04:27 am
We have had stable alliances, we've been at the top table of four alliances since TUPs star rose, and all of them were world class alliances not the kind of pro alliance status other countries our size are left with. In addition although we have been wiped, every time this happened allies invaded the UK mainland to free us. That's such a privileged position. Do you see France, Australia, etc getting that kind of support through their long occupation?

Anyway I'm done arguing with fools, if you want to let the lunatics run the asylum we'll see if you can do any better.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Big Ant on June 16, 2014, 10:05:18 am
all of them were world class alliances 

What are you drinking.... I want some!

TWO was decent at best, but Magic, you as SG again slowed down progress and went into decline.. Failed
ONE was a complete failure
Sirius .... LOL you didnt get china, and it failed right there.. then you kicked USA instead of waiting 10 days for a new CP... hahaha
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Gregory Gallangher on June 16, 2014, 10:16:26 am
Wayne, BA, Goku: You are doing exactly what certain Hungarian politicians did with me and my friends a year ago. They hated me and did not care about the consequences of ousting me. The consequences of course were serious: Hungary became a second class country, without diplomatic power and was forced to follow Serbia into Asteria. There without the support necessary - the support the country had in ONE and TWO times - lost all it's colonies and is constantly struggling for having even a few bonuses. The Arabian colonies will fall sooner rather than later too.

As for Alliances: ONE served it's purpose, except for the last period when Turkey went over to EDEN it was decent. TWO was an utter success, it was a plan well made and perfectly executed. It was our plan and you all envy it. Get over it, don't be a petty child.

This is what will happen to the UK too, probably worse. That's the price of petty domestic politics fights based on personal, emotional dislike and most importantly ENVY for some prominent politicians and parties.

Deny it all you want. It doesn't make it less true.

Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 16, 2014, 10:57:42 am
Those benefits never trickled down to the regular UK player. Other peoples (Poland) bonuses and other peoples (alliance command) fun.

This is only an issue because their flaming and corruption supressed domestic politics so much. They had previously been left alone to the alliance game but by demanding full control of euk culture (even parties and Mus) they got attacked back on all fronts.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 16, 2014, 11:07:57 am
That's just revisionist bullshit. We never wanted anything to do with your shitty trolling, and NE has been basically anti TUP since it was founded. Virtually everything you've ever written and every mail has mentioned TUP or myself directly. But anyway like I said, if you want to live in your own delusion go ahead, the UK deserves it.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 16, 2014, 12:15:48 pm
Another issue is that if your domestic diplomacy has gotten so bad that even moderate/formerly friendly groups are turning on you, then how can you be doing a good job in international diplomacy?

We have seen this already with Kravenn trolling our former Macedonian allies for no reason.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 16, 2014, 12:43:16 pm
If you don't understand the Greece-MKD situation well enough to know why that happened, then you don't have a right to criticise Kravenn for what he did.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 16, 2014, 12:45:55 pm
Did TUP's foreign policy trickle down to the average eUKer?

It's quite possible it did

However he or she possibly never knew about it. Where were the articles saying 'our allies fight with us' or those invoking us to fight for a Spanish congress with all our might?

There was a huge media void when it came to alliances and that got filled by someone with a certain message.



Let's look at today - We have the Argies on our doorstep and NEing us.

We don't have any of the foreign bods in our media, shouts or channels gathering allies, pointing out there sacrifices and taking ownership of the problem.

You have BA in there and visibly getting things done.



If I want a sane, rational discussion on a technical aspect of the national or pan-national game then I'd think - Keers.

If I wanted some shit done, I think - BA.



Only a small fraction want an end to your leadership, most of the rest of us feel that you and TUP have already vacated it by your own choice.





P.S on Macedonia.

I was there in their ranks, I understood the situation and they came willingly to battle with us in even our shitty, not v.important battles.

Kravenn was a complete Durp to them. Well beyond any reason other then Kravenn just being Kravenn.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 16, 2014, 12:47:28 pm
I understand the situation, I don't understand why he had to comment on it. He could have just not posted.

I belive he was trolling newspaper comments, did the Greeks ask him to insult the Macedonians to prove his loyalty or something?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 16, 2014, 01:02:54 pm
I understand the situation, I don't understand why he had to comment on it. He could have just not posted.

This is so ironic coming from you.


Alfa, BA is seen internationally by both sides as a clown. The one thing he has going for him is name recognition - last time he ran the response I got from other governments was generally "will BigAnt win?" and not in a hopeful way. As an international bag lady he got ignored totally by everyone last time, and he will again.

What you need is people going to our allies, calling in favours, asking MUs for help, reminding people that we can win the war in a couple of key battles. Unfortunately there is absolutely nobody to do that. Goku is probably one of the best informed out of the UKs new leadership and he's just proven he doesn't have a clue.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Butjam on June 16, 2014, 01:27:57 pm
Alfa raises a good point that Sirius leadership need to answer. Previous alliances, TWO especially had a great media presence. Having an article out as often as it was was brilliant. I've always been a layman in terms of alliances, even in brief MoFA stints I took the non-alliance countries. Despite all of that, I really felt I belonged to TWO and was sad to see it go. Obviously we have less to be proud of this time and as both alliances are damagehoods there's less real friendship to be found behind them. Even with that though, I'd really like to see an article every week from the secretary. Does that position even exist anymore?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Rob the Bruce on June 16, 2014, 01:41:41 pm
Could we not get a more internationally unknown person to run for alliance crap? That way we don't have the "oh the forigs think he's a c*nt" problem. Might be a simple solution providing we get somebody competent who can impress forigs with professional sounding waffle.

But yeah Sirius needs more articles and stuff out.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 16, 2014, 01:50:51 pm
Quote from: Iain Keers
Alfa, BA is seen internationally by both sides as a clown.

I wasn't talking internationally as like many, many eUKers - I don't give a scabby todger who gets to play as SG, who the largest party in Croatia is, how Greece's empire is going, etc...

Maybe if things were the way that Butjam recalls then that might be different but it isn't and that failing has bugger all to do with BA.

If you're not a lurker in places like here then all you'll see is the media and the battlefield and SIRIUS has zero presence in the former and as we have very few battles of importance then we don't get to see the latter until days like today.


We're nowhere near congress time and this is a prime, one-off battle that is a gift for any pro-SIRIUS fanboys to get out there in the media, active in the channels and generally showing us that - Yes, Sirius is with us.


If they're not doing that 'cos they are in a strop, too lazy or bitter at another group or player then they are dooming the cause of Sirius in the eUK and would be just as responsible for any fall-out that occurs.

Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sambo112 on June 16, 2014, 01:57:19 pm
well whatever you think it looks like we are only minutes away from BigAnt been TUP PP
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: VoodooMike71 on June 16, 2014, 02:21:26 pm
It's official then - BigAnt is PP.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Lionbeard on June 16, 2014, 02:23:40 pm
Could we not get a more internationally unknown person to run for alliance crap? That way we don't have the "oh the forigs think he's a c*nt" problem. Might be a simple solution providing we get somebody competent who can impress forigs with professional sounding waffle.

All anyone had to do was ask.

:ugeek:
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: LongShotzZ on June 16, 2014, 02:28:10 pm
Well...you'd better get writing that piece for the obituary column then.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Joffrey Baratheon on June 16, 2014, 03:07:45 pm
TWO was decent at best, but Magic, you as SG again slowed down progress and went into decline.. Failed
ONE was a complete failure
Sirius .... LOL you didnt get china, and it failed right there.. then you kicked USA instead of waiting 10 days for a new CP... hahaha

TWO was the only alliance to ever actually 'win' with complete and utter dominance, ONE led to TWO. How you can see that as 'decent at best' god knows. But then you were with the Pro CoT lot so yeah... how did that shit fest go?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: bananaboy378 on June 16, 2014, 03:17:21 pm
Dear BigAnt,

You are an embodiment of everything wrong with the UK.

You let in serb PTO-ers, which even you cannot defend.

TUP didnt help the ATO because you have been a flowering jerb sniff to them, and frankly, why would they help you? Since lets be honest, you'd not let anyone else play with /your/ party.

And so far, no my knowledge, TUP have done bad things, but almost all of the good things/sensible people reside in TUP. They are not dominating the UK, it's just cause no-one trusts you with anything other than dressing yourself.

Best regards,
bananaboy378
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 16, 2014, 03:46:17 pm
I understand the situation, I don't understand why he had to comment on it. He could have just not posted.

This is so ironic coming from you.


Alfa, BA is seen internationally by both sides as a clown. The one thing he has going for him is name recognition - last time he ran the response I got from other governments was generally "will BigAnt win?" and not in a hopeful way. As an international bag lady he got ignored totally by everyone last time, and he will again.

What you need is people going to our allies, calling in favours, asking MUs for help, reminding people that we can win the war in a couple of key battles. Unfortunately there is absolutely nobody to do that. Goku is probably one of the best informed out of the UKs new leadership and he's just proven he doesn't have a clue.

You still haven't explained why Kravenn had to go into Macedonian articles and start posting FYROM insults to turn previously great relations into terrible ones.

Having neutral/friendly countries in the rival alliance sounds like an asset to keep up? Means less damage coming your way at least.



Yes I am relativly well informed on how alliances work since I'm one of the few who have seen alliance command. Like most I know little of Sirius since its media is quiet.

It's quite easy to do alliance work, it just requires time investment and the previous guy in your job passing on contacts.



If BigAnts image is damaged abroad, it may be something to do with the drama you caused in your 2012 Christmas day coup attemp. With TUP former alliance members smearing him for supporting the Spanish alliance leaders war plans and turning our own allies against us.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 16, 2014, 03:52:57 pm
Lol that is bullshit, you have no idea what really happened then clearly.

You know the liberating thing Goku, I don't have to refute your arguments anymore. If people want to believe your garbage so be it.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 16, 2014, 04:13:59 pm
Someone posts an irrefutable point...

Iain reaction: "You clearly have no idea what is going on! Explain my reasoning? No I am KEERS what I sayeth must be truth. I don't even need to speak to such filth."

My reaction: "I guess you are right but here is why we felt that way and this is why it is important you retarded bastard!"


#howbeinghatedhappens
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Gregory Gallangher on June 16, 2014, 04:18:53 pm
It's quite easy to do alliance work, it just requires time investment and the previous guy in your job passing on contacts.

That what every amateur diplomat says when they think they know better than the guy who has years of experience.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 16, 2014, 04:20:58 pm
We did a sim on the forums called "game of thrones forum game" and I basically won. I did rather well at plotting and alliance making.

Not to mention I was MoFA in a top 2 alliance once.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: The Baron Samedi on June 16, 2014, 04:27:59 pm
Dude, you did not just compared diplomacy to roleplaying.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Talon Karrde on June 16, 2014, 04:33:09 pm
Well played BA, you picked your moment well I reckon. Older guys less active and more jaded than ever before, and lazy newer members that didn't message the party until it was too late. Idk if that was strategy or just luck, but well played.

I won't be following the other oldies out of the country, I'll continue to serve the UK faithfully and inactively!


Also, hands off my harrison ford popcorn gif!
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 16, 2014, 04:40:18 pm
You were mofa once in may 2014 and you were shit. And you really do have no idea. I can't wait for ASBO-Man and Aspergers-boy to be let loose on international politics.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 16, 2014, 05:13:55 pm
You were mofa once in may 2014 and you were shit. And you really do have no idea. I can't wait for ASBO-Man and Aspergers-boy to be let loose on international politics.
Ah yes, the good old days of May 2014.

I was an awesome MoFa. Played hardball with Ireland and USA to get what we wanted, then saved Ireland from a PTO attempt. Was in the process for threatening Sweden to save Germany when UKRP civil war broke out apparently to make us... save Germany and abolish Military Units. What bullshit that was!
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 16, 2014, 05:18:38 pm
Pretty much a retcon of events. You managed to flower off one faction so much they robbed the treasury and insisted you be fired, and nobody else liked you enough to stick up for you.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Pfeiffer on June 16, 2014, 05:40:31 pm
I find this amusing, because it means you fags get more of BA and the derp crew...which apparently includes Alfa...and less of Keers. This saddens me, as I enjoyed being friendly with the UK and Iain's one of the few who isn't too stupid to manage forig relations.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Talon Karrde on June 16, 2014, 05:50:58 pm
I wouldn't say alfa is one of the derp crew, he goes his own path. I've seen him rubbish BA's statements as often as Keers' so far.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Butjam on June 16, 2014, 06:13:17 pm
I might institute using Talon's Harrison gif as a bannable offence, like how you're not allowed to call it a Cornish pasty 'less it comes from Cornwall.

The future seems very uncertain at the moment, nobody else find this a little exciting? I say we lob Wayne in as perma-MoFA and see what happens. I predict in 6 months he'll be SG of SiriusTWO: Star Harder.

That or France level perma-wipe, take your pick
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Rob the Bruce on June 16, 2014, 06:17:05 pm
I say we lob Wayne in as perma-MoFA and see what happens.

This should've been done months ago.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 16, 2014, 06:44:55 pm
Pretty much a retcon of events. You managed to flower off one faction so much they robbed the treasury and insisted you be fired, and nobody else liked you enough to stick up for you.
I wasn't invovled in UK politics that month, was too busy doing MoFA. That faction held the CP too, it was a UKRP civil war and was more about internal party policies.

All I can think of that they were really corrupt (RRS/Wellersly/Hassan) and just waiting for an excuse to steal, which I accidentally gave them.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 16, 2014, 07:15:54 pm
I wouldn't say alfa is one of the derp crew, he goes his own path. I've seen him rubbish BA's statements as often as Keers' so far.

Pretty much.

Most of my posts have been "who gives a flower" followed by why both sides are right and both sides are wrong.

Hopefully with Wimbledon around the corner I'll refrain from commenting and return to silent Meh!
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 16, 2014, 07:32:45 pm
I say we lob Wayne in as perma-MoFA and see what happens.

This should've been done months ago.

What can I say, bitches love me...

Canada MPP, here we come.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sambo112 on June 16, 2014, 07:47:30 pm
I say we lob Wayne in as perma-MoFA and see what happens.

This should've been done months ago.

What can I say, bitches love me...

Canada MPP, here we come.

Too late they NE'd us
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 16, 2014, 09:19:43 pm
They are just having one last fling before we settle down into marriage...
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: bananaboy378 on June 17, 2014, 09:01:46 pm
You really have no idea about anything do you?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Metapod on June 17, 2014, 09:18:09 pm
You really have no idea about anything do you?

ironic much
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: bananaboy378 on June 18, 2014, 08:29:27 am
I have created this handy flow chart about a year ago just so I know what's happening.

(http://i.imgur.com/MDuYLDY.png)
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Diakun on June 18, 2014, 12:12:31 pm
I have created this handy flow chart about a year ago just so I know what's happening.

(http://i.imgur.com/MDuYLDY.png)
:ugeek:
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Dishmcds on June 19, 2014, 05:22:56 am
Pretty much a retcon of events. You managed to flower off one faction so much they robbed the treasury and insisted you be fired, and nobody else liked you enough to stick up for you.
I wasn't invovled in UK politics that month, was too busy doing MoFA. That faction held the CP too, it was a UKRP civil war and was more about internal party policies.

All I can think of that they were really corrupt (RRS/Wellersly/Hassan) and just waiting for an excuse to steal, which I accidentally gave them.

The people involved were in the fucking Phillipines. How was that UKRP related outside of "they used to be UKRP before they got bored and went to a new country"?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 19, 2014, 06:32:08 am
RRS and Hassan were both exTUP actually
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 19, 2014, 07:27:31 am
Pretty much a retcon of events. You managed to flower off one faction so much they robbed the treasury and insisted you be fired, and nobody else liked you enough to stick up for you.
I wasn't invovled in UK politics that month, was too busy doing MoFA. That faction held the CP too, it was a UKRP civil war and was more about internal party policies.

All I can think of that they were really corrupt (RRS/Wellersly/Hassan) and just waiting for an excuse to steal, which I accidentally gave them.

The people involved were in the flowering Phillipines. How was that UKRP related outside of "they used to be UKRP before they got bored and went to a new country"?

Wellersly was a UKRP member and UK MoF, he gave the passwords to RRS.

Citizenship didn't exist back then you could vote where you wanted to. RRS was in Ireland building that PTO I stopped. If he hid his account in Philipines before voting day it isn't really relevant?

Hassan used the stolen gold to tank in Germany (his justification for the theft) and build up his account. He later helped put us in the opposite alliance to Germany so this was just an excuse.

So its UKRP related as at least one was in UKRP. Also their demands were the same as the objections sone in UKRP had to government reform.

They were traitors, no other way of looking at it. Don't see how I'm at fault any more than anyone in Government during Choow's theft.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 19, 2014, 08:24:21 am
Actually RRS had the emails from when he was MoF, he simply reset the passwords. I spoke to Wellesley just after it happened and he was pissed. I think he tried to retcon it afterwards to make it look like he knew about it because his ego couldn't take that he'd dropped the ball.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Butjam on June 19, 2014, 10:26:19 am
Lionbeard posted the thread a few days ago... It pissed Wellesley off to no end
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 19, 2014, 10:56:16 am
That's what we all thought but I was given information by a third player when he quit that Wellersly was in on it and had given the password. Who knows?

Regardless it was pretty unfair towards those of us making reforms in government to have them revoked by a theft (wasn't just me) because a minority didn't agree.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Butjam on June 19, 2014, 11:09:08 am
I agree on the dickhead status of those that did it
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Joffrey Baratheon on June 19, 2014, 03:04:31 pm
Sounds awfully akin to a certain someone trying to use citizenship passes as a blackmail tool. But there ya go.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 19, 2014, 03:35:00 pm
Yeah stealing the treasury is exactly the same as saying something dumb in the heat of the moment and not following through.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Joffrey Baratheon on June 19, 2014, 04:18:29 pm
Only it was followed through and the intention was the same. A minority holding the majority at knife point. either way it looks like you've got your wish, time to come through with all those grandiose promises.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 19, 2014, 04:38:16 pm
I haven't let in any Serbs since the first two ages ago?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Gregory Gallangher on June 19, 2014, 04:47:41 pm
No others do the dirty job for you obviously.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Sexagenarian on June 19, 2014, 04:52:10 pm
A minority holding the majority at knife point.

If the majority was that bothered it wouldn't have happened.

My guess is that the botched PTO masquerading as an ATO triggered everything, I wonder who was responsible for that?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Talon Karrde on June 19, 2014, 04:55:25 pm
A minority holding the majority at knife point.

If the majority was that bothered it wouldn't have happened.

My guess is that the botched PTO masquerading as an ATO triggered everything, I wonder who was responsible for that?

Ironically enough not the people that have now left :P

Fairly sure it was the government that did it, who was CP last month?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Joffrey Baratheon on June 19, 2014, 04:58:31 pm
A minority holding the majority at knife point.

If the majority was that bothered it wouldn't have happened.

My guess is that the botched PTO masquerading as an ATO triggered everything, I wonder who was responsible for that?

you're right, The reaction came before any serbs were let in. Good logic.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 19, 2014, 10:27:21 pm
TUP threw their hand in. BA or another was bound to give it a try after last month and yet TUP seem to of done nothing about it.

1) No Counter-TUP runner in Vendetta
2) No agreement with Gov regarding ATO
3) No media presence

The +10 that have flowered off to other nations finally lacked the stomach to snuff out V and they've left everyone else to deal with the fallout.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 19, 2014, 10:48:13 pm
Do you think that BigAnt ran last month and got 3 votes on purpose to lull them into a false sense of security?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 20, 2014, 07:02:33 am
Lol

>troll TUP relentlessly for years
>make no effort to help them "because they didn't ask"
>blame TUP for not sticking round to deal with the fallout of your short sighted dislike for them.

Why the hell should we stick round? I mean really? V let in so many serbs now, including a dozen on the couple days leading up to the election, that any of you who disagree with them are now a target and you're all too busy stabbing each other in the back to help one another.

As it happens TUP did contact officials from other parties. The government was afk all day, and Appleby's response, when BigAnt was winning by 4 votes, was that it was 'too late'. There are V guys running every month in TUP. Last month the government organised ATO efforts from the 6th, this month it seems to have just been ignored.

Anyway we're quite happy where we are, beyond the trolling and infighting that's dogged us for years. I personally look forward to reading a V article that doesn't mention me about six times. Or any other party article that doesn't brand us "as bad as V". If you think that's true then good luck, you lost half the problem. There should be no negative consequences.
You know the funniest thing is, TUP always got the blame. If something went right or wrong, we never once got praise. Even now when we've gone, we're getting the blame for going. Is it any wonder we don't want to participate in a community that hates us?

Jesus Christ. I don't know what you all smoke.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 20, 2014, 08:06:34 am
You guys always gave yourselves the praise and I certainly gave you credit when you had a few good CP terms. What you describe is more like your own attitude to other parties.

You guys built the community where someone like Appleby or Woldy can be CP. You never critisised them for doing nothing in their last half a dozen terms.

Take responsibility and move on.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: jxm on June 20, 2014, 09:34:02 am
It'll be highly interesting to see who becomes the new scapegoat now. I have no doubt that BigAnt et al will still strive to target former TUP as responsible for all of their problems but it'll be interesting to see how UKRP, PCP and UKPP are now treated considering that the Vendetta coalition controls the top two parties.

Should be fun to have absolutely no say in politics unless you agree with BigAnt. Welcome to that totalitarian dystopia you already thought you lived in.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 20, 2014, 10:12:30 am
I expect TUP will continue to be blamed out of sheer inertia, but PCP will be next for the hatchet.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Gregory Gallangher on June 20, 2014, 10:51:52 am
PCP, UKRP, UKPP all think that V will ignore them if they lay low. How naive.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 20, 2014, 10:54:59 am
Vendetta has been in coalition with PCP and UKPP in the past and will hope to rebuild friendly relations so that is a bad analysis born of wanting to make them look bad.

UKRP is the original facist state bogeyman, its just that it was lost in TUPs crusade of their own starting.

So most New Era actions were anti UKRP for the first year until TUP/Iain waded in.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 20, 2014, 11:16:00 am
>troll TUP relentlessly for years

UKPP's bugbear party and target of venom was UKRP not TUP (BMT was a founder after all) , Hell we even backed Kravenn over a UKRP candidate in a CP race............Kravenn!

Our disagreements with TUP were on Procedural Affairs/Traditions and TUP's slow & passive/studied & steady approach to ruling.

I don't doubt or deny that such debates ended up in shouting matches but (as the name suggests) we were about progression not revolution.

That TUP stuck to their guns on all things is admirable and their right but it missed a chance to head off a deeper discontent that became character not philosophy driven.


Quote
>make no effort to help them "because they didn't ask"

As it happens TUP did contact officials from other parties. The government was afk all day, and Appleby's response, when BigAnt was  winning by 4 votes, was that it was 'too late'. There are V guys running every month in TUP. Last month the government organised ATO efforts from the 6th, this month it seems to have just been ignored.

I was PP of a top 5 party on election day and the only listed official - I received nothing from TUP and only became aware of the event when chaz PM'd me for a comment by which time I was +20 votes up.

Those of UKPP that did move to vote (and there were some) admitted they had been contacted directly by BA or had indirectly become aware of the event from the friends shoutbox.

I cannot speak for SHApples but I'm assuming he was looking at the total votes cast, time of day and registering the fact that there's no informal or formally established method of ATO for an 'on the day' event that would've made the difference in the face of TUP's seeming refusal to do anything themselves.


Quote
>blame TUP for not sticking round to deal with the fallout of your short sighted dislike for them.

Why the hell should we stick round? I mean really? V let in so many serbs now, including a dozen on the couple days leading up to the election, that any of you who disagree with them are now a target and you're all too busy stabbing each other in the back to help one another.

The choice of fight or flight was yours to make and I can't pretend to understand the factors you were weighing up when the time came.

I was merely pointing out that because of the method of your departure that you DO have ownership to any potential blame as you've left 50 odd members leaderless and basically handed over your and the eUK's sheeple vote to those who killed you.


Quote
I personally look forward to reading a V article that doesn't mention me about six times.
It will as you and your party are the reference point for the era just gone - Something you should be proud of.

Quote
Or any other party article that doesn't brand us "as bad as V".
You were as bad as them in terms of abusing the principles of gameplay and in hectoring opposition.

You may find that hard to believe right now but if in a couple of years away you happen to chance upon old articles and threads you might take a different point of view once removed from the day to day minutae.


Quote
you lost half the problem. There should be no negative consequences.
The one true benifit from all that has occured is that once the next CP cycle is complete we will be entering a brand new era. Where for better or worse we'll have new leaders of the community and new fights to fight.

It's for that reason alone that I applaud your manner of departure and assuming you chaps can refrain from pokining back into eUK media or trying to SG any alliance were in...................V have very little excuses.

Quote
You know the funniest thing is, TUP always got the blame. If something went right or wrong, we never once got praise. Even now when we've gone, we're getting the blame for going. 

You were national leaders and (as you remind us) well experienced in foreign affairs so OFC you got the blame.

You also DID get praise when the rare good things happened and/or you gave us a good CP that we could rally behind


You are getting your fair share of 'the blame' and our rightly liable for it as much as other parties, MUs, Gov, remaining TUPers, Vendetta and every other eUKer. Suck it up you only have a month or two of it then you're out of that equation and free to roam.

Quote
Is it any wonder we don't want to participate in a community that hates us?

1/4 hated you, 1/4 loved you!

The rest of us were there to be swayed and fair play to BA - He got out there spamming the media, being present in IRC and getting into out PMs. TUP didn't really do any of that towards the end of their days.


Your trouble was that your mindset was that ultimatly TUP > rest of eUK and you got drawn into defending the undefensible positions and statements of your members which by association became yours.

As a leader of a community you naturally defend your members and as an elder player you seek to protect them as a mentor/big brother should but that comes at the cost of national prestige.


Example: At one point over a year ago, I was the eUKs mega-tank who kept us on the map during 3 front wars, made great forig contacts and was a leader of a top party with CP manifestos that were received well across parties.

But, I was also the guy who stood by Nick, defended BMT, stole the RN name and stuck up for any wee player who was barracked and hectored and involved in some way in a hundred other sins against morality or the establishment.

I was in a similar situation in eSouth Korea and my enemy at the time Goku can probably attest to the fact that I was in many ways South Korea itself. However I never attained in-game leadership as I was anathema to some within the nation - Much as you are.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 20, 2014, 11:34:43 am
PCP, UKRP, UKPP all think that V will ignore them if they lay low. How naive.

Game policy wise;

You may see us fighting them on tax levels as they haven't really defined a set level just a 'maximised for social benifits' approach but we are probably closer with them here then we are with WRP and UKRP.

We also remain open to their ideas on foreign alliances as long as they are tempered by some pragmatism in regards to game mechanics.

I believe our biggest bone of contention with them will be over military affairs (specifically funding) and Don's behaviour (our madman/their visionary?)


Meta-Game;

As a more radical offshot of the UKPP movement it wouldn't be surprising to find our outlooks too dissimilar here. However, Its not entriely clear how V would like to see a post-TUP eUK functioning as we obv. lack an historical sample.


Support/Alliances
UKPP currently does not support any non-UKPP CP candidate and does not run with other parties in Congress election.

All UKPP members have a free vote and they are not obliged to follow any party or national whip.

Therefore if some upstart UKRPer comes along with great ideas and a vision then he or she will be just as likely to receive votes and support from within the party.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 20, 2014, 11:45:33 am
Whatever alliance UK ends up in after BA pulls us out of Sirius, we'll never he in the first rank of countries again. So worrying about me being in hq above you isn't an issue.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 20, 2014, 12:23:58 pm
When were we ever in the first rank of countries :/
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Gregory Gallangher on June 20, 2014, 12:52:25 pm
During TWO the UK had enourmous international respect and influence. How else do you think the country ended up being founding member of TWO.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Butjam on June 20, 2014, 01:07:48 pm
If they come for us, they come for us, never mind. Until then I suspect we'll carry on with what we do now, which is get ourselves involved in Government and give our advice and suggestions in there. We'll also continue our general trend, I suppose, of offering an alternative choice that doesn't rely on boogiemen or rhetoric to push for our beliefs. We were monsters in the past, hopefully it can be avoided

Threatening to pull us out of our alliance is why I'm trying to squirm my way back into things though, it's a very simply suggestion, and not in the good way
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 20, 2014, 01:20:41 pm
Vendetta would need 66% to pull us out of Sirius and even with the flight of a few voters they are nowhere near being in such a position of power* to do that.


*Wet dream result for V based on current figures assuming only they campaign and are awesome at doing so - 23 seats or 57.5% meaning they'd need 6 abstainers or 3 defectors for a 66% vote.


It's unlikely that any other party or group of parties would give them the votes so needed unless there was a referndum in place to change their minds and in all likelyhood they wouldn't get 66% in that either.


Tbh, You could of nipped that in the bud early on by having a congress vote on being a founder of Sirius, making it an issue for an incoming congress to campaign and clarify their position on.

Even if you feared the worst you could of gamed the vote by having it here on the forums:- "So there is a record of the debate for public consumption (once edited for security) and whilst we realise you (NE/V) don't want to use the forum this would be a one-off situation and if you care greatly about the question then it won't be a hardship to sign-up, discuss, vote and then forget or delete your account later."

+ Some won't sign-up increasing your vote and making them seem unreasonable.
+ Some activity on the forum.
+ They'd divulge their IP address so that would clear up any claims of 'Multi'.

- They'd get trolled and hate you the more but..............that was a given anyway.




Only way eUK is out of Sirius in the short-term is if we are kicked out.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Butjam on June 20, 2014, 01:54:29 pm
You're right that there should have been more transparency in the whole alliance thing. I understand that, reasonably, we can't just be leaking alliance details during their formation and the like, but I think a lot of people felt very uninformed during this one. I don't blame anyone in particular, things just happened so quickly after TWO finished and these alliances were cobbled together incredibly quickly. Still, I agree with the choice made, Sirius ain't perfect but it's the least shit option we've got
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Joffrey Baratheon on June 20, 2014, 02:09:38 pm
PCP, UKRP, UKPP all think that V will ignore them if they lay low. How naive.

Not all those in those parties do. I for one don't think we'll be ignored, hell we were seen as the evil overlords for a month because of mine and Woldy's front stage approach.

I don't blame TUP for leaving in the slightest, In fact I think it's pretty understandable. What matters now is what comes next and without TUP to be the opposite of it'll be fun seeing how V work out their policies.

There are 2 main worries in my opinion #1 Decreased ability on the alliance stage (LETO anyone? ¬_¬) and #2 Our poor national treasury is gonna get ransacked, What with V's only real policies being to throw cash around without any notion of keeping balanced books.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 20, 2014, 03:41:21 pm
Where is that policy?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 20, 2014, 04:27:44 pm
It's called BigAnt. Since UK will be wiped at congress anyway it depends on the CP election. BigAnt can pull out on his own if only he has a vote
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Joffrey Baratheon on June 20, 2014, 05:49:43 pm
Where is that policy?

The main talking point of V outside of Alliance position and TUP are bad mm'kay has been more investment in Citizens, Funding for MUs and Generally spending whilst reducing taxes.

Whether that was purely electioneering or not, the view point put across by the most vocal V members has been that the Government should splash the cash.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alphabethis on June 20, 2014, 06:59:13 pm
Lol

>troll TUP relentlessly for years
>make no effort to help them "because they didn't ask"
>blame TUP for not sticking round to deal with the fallout of your short sighted dislike for them.

Why the hell should we stick round? I mean really? V let in so many serbs now, including a dozen on the couple days leading up to the election, that any of you who disagree with them are now a target and you're all too busy stabbing each other in the back to help one another.

As it happens TUP did contact officials from other parties. The government was afk all day, and Appleby's response, when BigAnt was winning by 4 votes, was that it was 'too late'. There are V guys running every month in TUP. Last month the government organised ATO efforts from the 6th, this month it seems to have just been ignored.

Anyway we're quite happy where we are, beyond the trolling and infighting that's dogged us for years. I personally look forward to reading a V article that doesn't mention me about six times. Or any other party article that doesn't brand us "as bad as V". If you think that's true then good luck, you lost half the problem. There should be no negative consequences.
You know the funniest thing is, TUP always got the blame. If something went right or wrong, we never once got praise. Even now when we've gone, we're getting the blame for going. Is it any wonder we don't want to participate in a community that hates us?

errrrrrr, apparently you have been getting "e-international" posts for years... so ...
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alphabethis on June 20, 2014, 07:09:38 pm
At least , you should admit that Vendetta-New Era propaganda has fulfilled its goals. That's an achievement.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alphabethis on June 20, 2014, 07:20:28 pm
alternance is not power or even other players playing top level roles is healthier than having the same old faces month after month.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 20, 2014, 07:20:40 pm
Where is that policy?

The main talking point of V outside of Alliance position and TUP are bad mm'kay has been more investment in Citizens, Funding for MUs and Generally spending whilst reducing taxes.

Whether that was purely electioneering or not, the view point put across by the most vocal V members has been that the Government should splash the cash.

Increased Social and MU funding to be funded by MPP cost reductions and therefore its tied in to the whole alliance thing.

Currently we're on a monthly MPP spend of £110K (or 11,000 Q7 tanks, 366K Q5 food, 550G, free trg upgrade for 27 players, etc..) obviously we won't see a total reduction here but enough to possibly make a big difference in player support.

Less MPPs also means we might have a chance to airstrike our way of congress wipe as suddenly the energy unit requirement is not beyond us- UK alone it would cost the £11,000 to buy the food to do so..

They als omention other means as a source of funds but until they provide detail then it doesn't count.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Joffrey Baratheon on June 20, 2014, 09:16:02 pm
There was no mention of MPP reduction in the article about V's 'People Policies'. However an MPP reduction would also counter their policy of expansion for bonuses... so again I don't see how they have considered costs, Whether that cost be in allied damage or in currency to fund these programs.

But we'll soon find out it seems.

As for other means my guess would be back to the same old 'Lets make our own voters club' malarkey, Which would be a large undertaking to try and take on an already well established club in order to perpetuate something which most people get annoyed by only this time explicitly on behalf of a nation.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 20, 2014, 09:20:55 pm
Believe it was implied in the wiki and I vaguely recall reduction being used when I queried them about it.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 20, 2014, 10:29:33 pm
Where is that policy?

The main talking point of V outside of Alliance position and TUP are bad mm'kay has been more investment in Citizens, Funding for MUs and Generally spending whilst reducing taxes.

Whether that was purely electioneering or not, the view point put across by the most vocal V members has been that the Government should splash the cash.

How about not having 10+ MPPs?

I've been talking about this for a loooong time.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Joffrey Baratheon on June 20, 2014, 10:34:00 pm
That's fine, But how do you expect to conquer these fabled bonuses? Which regions are earmarked? Which MPPs would be dropped?

I'm personally not of the opinion that we need to constantly cut our MPPs, We've had some huge war droughts over the last few months with literally one battle amongst all our mpps to join in for several days on end.

And Alfa, I don't have insight into your personal conversations with them... As for the Wiki I didn't even realise people had bothered updating things there over the last couple of years to be honest.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 20, 2014, 11:01:07 pm
Yeah let's MPP all the tiny nations without wars...

Bonuses need to be built up to over years investing that MPP money into players instead.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 20, 2014, 11:14:47 pm
1. Tell us which countries you'd drop and why.

2. Tell us which regions you'd conquer
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: The Baron Samedi on June 20, 2014, 11:31:11 pm
I never got that part of the old-NE ideas...

How is it that you want to have less MPP's and more bonuses?
Let's pretend for a sec you can join a pro-Asteria block, as well, you are pretty much surrounded by pro-Asteria countries!
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 20, 2014, 11:56:02 pm
I never got that part of the old-NE ideas...

How is it that you want to have less MPP's and more bonuses?
Let's pretend for a sec you can join a pro-Asteria block, as well, you are pretty much surrounded by pro-Asteria countries!

It's not a unified theory but 2 mutually exclusive points of view.

Manifesto Idea #1 = Lets be buddies with Amerika & Canada and have a English north-Atlantic alliance thingie (few MPPs, More saving no Western threat)

Manifesto Idea #2 = As we're stuck in an uber-powerful alliance and can;t get out of it lets see if we can use the additional weight take some regions (More resources etc..)


Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Joffrey Baratheon on June 21, 2014, 12:32:48 am
I never got that part of the old-NE ideas...

How is it that you want to have less MPP's and more bonuses?
Let's pretend for a sec you can join a pro-Asteria block, as well, you are pretty much surrounded by pro-Asteria countries!

It's not a unified theory but 2 mutually exclusive points of view.

Manifesto Idea #1 = Lets be buddies with Amerika & Canada and have a English north-Atlantic alliance thingie (few MPPs, More saving no Western threat)

Manifesto Idea #2 = As we're stuck in an uber-powerful alliance and can;t get out of it lets see if we can use the additional weight take some regions (More resources etc..)

Idea 1, How do you intend to overhaul the constant anger between ourselves and Canada, Also Canada and USA? How does having no western threat (which we basically already have) end the Southern and North Eastern one let alone avoid pissing off both Asteria and whichever nations remain alongside Poland?

Idea 2. Which regions exactly? This is the same issue as always... If you want weapons bonuses... Good luck prying them away from Chile, Argentina, USA or Poland.

This is basically what I'm talking about, pie in the sky thinking without any actual straight point by point plan with an actual specified target.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 21, 2014, 12:58:05 am
Those options were hypothetical in detail as I'm not nor have been a member of NE/V and don't know the specifics of each case.

The point was that there has been an evolution in policy (but not spirit) as there have been in pretty  much every party (check WRP tax policy for an example of a pre-evolution policy)
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Malkaiser on June 21, 2014, 08:13:33 am
Tell us which countries you'd drop and why.

Instead of everyone in the alliance MPPing everyone else in the alliance, I would MPP ideally one large country (they protect us) and one small country (we protect them). I would have the entire alliance do this and organise the MPP web so that everyone is covered.

Then we would take extra MPPs with countries at war to get battles to fight in / protect allies. Only if we got invaded would we go back up to 10+ MPPs.

Finally an alliance MU would be created in the UK with our active players moving to countries at war (not citizenship) to fight there without MPPs, even solo I find that I can move around a lot outside of the MPPs system to find battles. Oh yeah and this is how the game used to work anyway and we had such an MU in the past...



You know, use organisation and strategy.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 21, 2014, 09:03:07 am
Organisation and strategy in the eUK...  come on at least be realistic Goku. 

We couldn't hold decent bonuses in TWO, what makes people believe we can hold em without an alliance that was unbeatable?  The time for eUK holding bonuses not belonging to us naturally, has long passed.

I don't get what you are asking from this 'alliance MU based in the eUK'.  Could you elaborate on this more?  Cuz I'm very much of the opinion that the eUK needs less MU's rather than more...
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 21, 2014, 09:05:46 am
Hahaha so if say Spain was getting attacked Goku, and we had MPP with Poland and Slovakia (as an example) you think Spain would be OK with that?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Wayne on June 21, 2014, 09:29:25 am
To be fair Keers, he did say that he would MPP those under attack...  so seeing as the eWorld is at consta-war we would pretty much have the same MPP's as we do now.

The only current ones I can see being pointless are the Belgies and the Dutch.  Which I imagine were signed due to that NSPP thingy.  Would have cheaper to send a stack of Q5 moving tickets to the entire populations of those two countries...
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 21, 2014, 11:24:10 am
I very much like the idea of mobility > mpp.

Spain gets attacked, we have no MPP so we send our troops out there. They are then on the scene getting involved in a battlefront, staying behind the lines for RW assistance and if we can slot them into chats and get them to read local media then they might get that feeling of alliance brotherhood that has thus far been lacking by staying at home.

Some of my happiest MU memories were when we'd organise a  deployment, get into threatre and make a big deal of the whole event.


I'd say that supporting this mobility element is the only way I'd considering funding of MUs by the gov as acceptable.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: The Baron Samedi on June 21, 2014, 12:26:42 pm
Simply imagine the cost of deploying a meaningful force to make a differance. Anywhere.
Let's say you want to move to Spain, let's say it's 40 cc per person. Make it a 100 players? That's 4k CC.
You'll also have to move costantly to other countries, campaigns, whatever. Assume 3 important battles every month. 12k CC.
Plus any fight you may want to fight for your own country, so consider returning fees, etc.

The cost of an MPP is only 10k CC for 30 days.

Economically, it makes no sense. If it's for other reasons, cool.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 21, 2014, 02:53:36 pm
If we were aiming for a deployment model it would be best to just move all players to Poland and take advantage of their huge MPP stack.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alphabethis on June 21, 2014, 03:08:17 pm
I never got that part of the old-NE ideas...

How is it that you want to have less MPP's and more bonuses?
Let's pretend for a sec you can join a pro-Asteria block, as well, you are pretty much surrounded by pro-Asteria countries!

isn't Baron Samedi the Argentinian ambassador ? isn't he dangerous?
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alphabethis on June 21, 2014, 03:09:51 pm
If we were aiming for a deployment model it would be best to just move all players to Poland and take advantage of their huge MPP stack.
well, actually eUK should be ePoland, I mean, as powerful. Lots of people just want to join , ... but it's true. You wouldn't be in control of the "thing"....well, wait, actually you aren't.... so we can just proceed to get a powerful eUK, ... thanks for your services.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: The Baron Samedi on June 21, 2014, 03:49:39 pm
I never got that part of the old-NE ideas...

How is it that you want to have less MPP's and more bonuses?
Let's pretend for a sec you can join a pro-Asteria block, as well, you are pretty much surrounded by pro-Asteria countries!

isn't Baron Samedi the Argentinian ambassador ? isn't he dangerous?

(http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-because-i-m-dangerous.png)


What gave me away? The "Argentinian Spy" award?  (/_<) :lol:
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Alfagrem on June 21, 2014, 04:47:12 pm
Well tbh, Every player in the eWorld should move to poland to take advantage of the bonuses.

That Poland would then span the globe leading to a whig-nightmare of complete peace under pax-poland would be awesome in itself.

However players stay in their nation because of 'because' and whils the economic costs of moving are (as the Baron points out) not economical compared to an alternative - You have to weigh it against the retention cost involved of making something fun, kewl and unique happen.

Better 15K spent on deploying some troops then having them get bored, disintrested and die. Do that and you end up with.........well what we got now to be frank.
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on June 21, 2014, 06:54:28 pm
I don't mean get polish cs, I just mean move there to use their MPPs
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: judeconnors on November 14, 2014, 06:49:40 am
I almost want to go to UK to join in this fun :-P

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Iain Keers on November 14, 2014, 09:08:57 am
Sorry it's all over, UK is dead boring now
Title: Re: there is a TUP PTO attempt
Post by: Diakun on November 14, 2014, 09:38:54 am
Sorry it's all over, UK is dead boring now