Poll

Should the eUK have a Constitution

Yes
21 (51.2%)
No
15 (36.6%)
Undecided
5 (12.2%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: January 02, 2009, 05:44:53 pm

Author Topic: Uk Constitution  (Read 1854 times)

SKQ62

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 851
Re: Uk Constitution
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2009, 03:44:47 am »
But where you do you stand on the idea of a Constitution in general, Dish? I think the intricacies are not the issue at the moment, but rather the thinking behind the proposal and whether we the people agree with them. I imagine the initial post was rather just an idea of the sort to thing to expect from a Constitution.

Jizm

  • Posts: 300
Re: Uk Constitution
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2009, 11:28:33 pm »
I completely agree with Tommy.

The real UK has survived a fair bit longer that the US is without one, and seems do do a fair bit better on the social side as well from my point of view!

All a constitution will do is set out more rules that will restrict some and be exploited by others.

It's not necessary at all. What exactly is wrong with society in the eUK that means we need a constitution to tell us what law tells us anyway? Only more fairly.

Rayf Drayson

  • Posts: 1155
Re: Uk Constitution
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2009, 11:50:34 pm »
The reasoning behind the opt-in citizenship concept was to make things easier on the NHS.  That was the entire reasoning behind it, to be honest.  But the NHS is opt-in, anyway.  So there's no real need for that.

The reasoning behind defining citizenship at all is to protect against foreign takeovers.  However, there are two main problems with this:
1) You can't.  Period.  Can't be done.  Nothing can be done about it.  People can takeover the UK any time they want if they're a bit organized and have the numbers, and a couple dozen gold.  That's all it takes.  Our "sovereignty" is a fragile concept.  As is the very concept of "nationality" in this game.  China is Iranian.  Korea isn't Korean.  South Africa has no South Africans in it.  Pakistan had no Pakistanis in it (well, maybe a couple).  Mobility is the name of the game in eRepublik.  And, being on the internet, people can go wherever they please (I'm a US citizen in real life, but have only ever been an eUK citizen my entire lifetime in eRep).  Suffice to say, eUK is only "British" because we have the numbers to make it so.  That can change.
2) The admins don't honour contracts put up on their forums, even the ones they sign.  Even the much-vaunted "constitutions" that they co-sign on.  The US had a succession problem after V1 when Roby Petric wanted out.  This should have been solved by their constitution -- which the admins co-signed on -- and the CP should have gone to the official Vice President, according to their laws (officially "recognized" by the admins).  Nope.  It went to no-one (since this was just after V1 launch, and there'd been no V1 CP election in the US yet).  The admins refused to act as they should and honour the contract/constitution.  Canada had a similar problem, and it also has a formal constitution that the admins co-signed.  The short of it is this: the admins won't honour a constitution.

I argued those two points when I was on the constitutional committee.  However, I felt that it was still a good idea to get a framework developed.  A very, very loose framework.

These days, I think those two points clearly show that a constitution is worthless.
The Dude abides.

Dishmcds

  • Party - UKRP
  • Posts: 11228
  • Look behind you
Re: Uk Constitution
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2009, 12:36:03 am »
Quote from: "SKQ62"
But where you do you stand on the idea of a Constitution in general, Dish? I think the intricacies are not the issue at the moment, but rather the thinking behind the proposal and whether we the people agree with them. I imagine the initial post was rather just an idea of the sort to thing to expect from a Constitution.

Well, there are good points and bad points to a Constitution, and a lot has changed since V1 was introduced.

Initially, the main reason for a Constitution were two fold:

To allow a legal procedure if the President (Prime Minister) ever went inactive so he could be replaced (which the admins only recognised with a Constitution), and to remove the option of a political takeover. Back in Beta, if I counted correctly there were five countries total that had their documents signed by Admins, being Brazil, Spain, Canada, the US, and I believe Portugal (although I could be wrong). There may have been others posted, but none followed the exact procedures the admin requested such as the referendum in the President's paper and forums, etc.

Since V1, they've not only removed the ten day rule, but also made it to where young citizens cant vote (removing the purpose of multi accounting on election day. Takeovers are still possible (see Slovenia, India, China, Korea, etc) although it's changed from needing the Presidency to needing Congressional majority. Therefore it has removed some of the purpose.

Overall, I think a Constitution will add a degree of social community to the UK, although as I've stated, it's going to be very difficult to line up. I'd actually be willing to guess that by the time we got a working document in order, they'll be planning V2 and completely void the purpose anyway, but it's all in how we work it.

I think if we focus the Constitution on the community aspect, leaving what's already built into Erepublik (although a few mods such as our procedures for House of Commons, effectiveness of our laws, etc) and work on trying to improve ourselves in that manner, it would be useful.

But if we try to form a Constitution based on Erepublik's technical side, which could change at any moment, I think we're swimming upstream into a downstream current.

I don't have access to the forum, and I'd be more than happy to have a go at trying to put forth some kind of proposal if anyone wants, but I'm not sure the leftists would agree with my Libertarian side :P
[size=150]Former 7 time Erepublikan President[/size]

Hermanos

 

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