Author Topic: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION  (Read 669 times)

Arthur Wellesley

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THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« on: September 04, 2010, 05:58:04 pm »
IS THAT MARXISM TREATS CLASSES AS REIFIED OBJECTS WHEN THEY ARE MUCH TOO AMORPHOUS ENTITIES TO BE TREATED AS PRIME SOCIAL MOVERS.  INSTITUTIONALIST EXPLANATIONS OF THE CAUSES OF REVOLUTION ARE MUCH BETTER SUITED TO THE TASK AS THEY RECOGNIZE MUCH MORE CONCRETE ENTITIES SUCH AS THE STATE, CORPORATIONS, RELIGIONS, AND FAMILIES -- ALL OF WHICH DO NOT NEED REIFICATION TO BE UNDERSTOOD.

DISCUSS IN CAPS.
This is highly irregular.

johnobrow

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2010, 06:15:25 pm »
YOU MEAN LIKE THE FRENCH, GERMAN, VELVET AND AMERICAN REVOLUTIONS? OH NO WAIT....
EREP IS DEAD LABOUR AND DEAD TIME - LIFE IS ELSEWHERE
-------->DESTROY THAT WHICH DESTROYS YOU<--------

Arthur Wellesley

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2010, 06:16:37 pm »
PLEASE DESCRIBE TO ME HOW THE FRENCH, GERMAN, VELVET, AND AMERICAN REVOLUTIONS ARE BETTER UNDERSTOOD USING CLASSES.
This is highly irregular.

johnobrow

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2010, 06:21:09 pm »
WELL EACH IS AN EXAMPLE OF REVOLUTION WHERE ONE CLASS OVERTHREW ANOTHER, EXCEPT THE GERMAN REVOLUTION WHICH OF COURSE FAILED. THEY ALSO EACH CONCERN THE RELATIONSHIP OF ALL THOSE INVOLVED TO THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION. AN ECONOMIC CLASS OVERTHREW (OR ATTEMPTED TO) ANOTHER AND CHANGED THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION, THE ORGANISATION OF LABOUR ETC.
EREP IS DEAD LABOUR AND DEAD TIME - LIFE IS ELSEWHERE
-------->DESTROY THAT WHICH DESTROYS YOU<--------

Bob Boblo

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2010, 06:44:39 pm »
ITT: ARTHUR THINKS THE CHURCH AND SOME RANDOM FAMILY CAUSED THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION
Quote from: kcirp
Quote from: markfish7
Hey, I'm new, whats bob boblo's House?
its a collection of autistic homosexuals

RomanSoldier

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2010, 07:44:54 pm »
indeed

Arthur Wellesley

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2010, 07:47:55 pm »
WELL, IN A SENSE OF COURSE THERE WAS AN ELEMENT OF A CHANGE IN RULING CLASSES.  IN AMERICA, THE LANDED ARISTOCRACY OVERTHROWN BY THE MERCHANT BOURGEOISIE (PARTICULARLY EVIDENT IF YOU EXTEND THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION UNTIL THE CONCLUSION OF THE CIVIL WAR, WHICH MANY POLITICAL SCIENTISTS DO).  

THE POINT THAT I'M MAKING IS, HOWEVER, THAT CLASSES ARE NOT REALLY A VERY REASONABLE UNIT TO USE, AS THEY'RE SO FLUID WITH SO MANY INTERNAL DIVISIONS AND A LACK OF A COMMON PURPOSE OR "MISSION STATEMENT".  FAMILIES, CHURCHES, COMPANIES, STATES, ETC. (INSTITUTIONS) ARE SO MUCH BETTER TO STUDY AND YOU COULD MORE EASILY UNDERSTAND REVOLUTIONS THROUGH AN INSTITUTIONAL APPROACH I THINK.

THOUGH MARX WAS PRETTY DAMN GOOD AT UNDERSTANDING REVOLUTIONS, I THINK HE WAS MISSING THE MARK (AS HE DOES ECONOMICALLY, TOO).
This is highly irregular.

RomanSoldier

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2010, 07:53:13 pm »
ROBOCOP DEMANDS MORE CAPITALS

McAfee01

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2010, 08:32:23 pm »
MY SHOUT TRUMPS ALL OF YOURS
10x congressman | 1x Congressional Committee |[/color]Minister of Foreign Affairs x4| Minister of Home Affairs x1 | Minister of Recruitment x2 | Recreating George Orwell's 1984 on eRepublik since 2010 | Winner of the Totally Legit Fellow Award (2011)[/b]

RomanSoldier

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2010, 08:41:31 pm »
maybe?

johnobrow

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2010, 08:15:48 pm »
ON THE CONTRARY ARTHUR, A CLASS VERY MUCH DOES HAVE A COMMON MISSION IN ITS COMMON INTERESTS. WHAT VARIES IS LEVEL OF CLASS CONSCIOUSNESS BUT WHEN ONE SEES A REVOLUTION IT IS BECAUSE CLASS CONSCIOUSNESS HAS EXPLODED, AS IT WERE.

AS FOR MISSING THE MARK ECONOMICALLY, VERY FEW EVEN ESTABLISHMENT ECONOMISTS WOULD AGREE WITH YOU THERE.
EREP IS DEAD LABOUR AND DEAD TIME - LIFE IS ELSEWHERE
-------->DESTROY THAT WHICH DESTROYS YOU<--------

Arthur Wellesley

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2010, 08:33:16 pm »
I WOULD DISAGREE WITH YOU ABOUT CLASS CONSCIOUSNESS.  TYPICALLY, CLASSES DON'T EVEN REALLY KNOW THEY'RE IN A CLASS.  FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE 97% OF RESPONDENTS IN AMERICA CHARACTERIZE THEMSELVES AS 'MIDDLE CLASS', BUT ANYONE THAT'S SPENT TIME IN AMERICA KNOWS THAT THAT IS BOLLOCKS.

AS FOR ECONOMICALLY MISSING THE MARK, HOW SO?  I THINK MOST ESTABLISHED ECONOMISTS WOULD AGREE THAT THE FREE MARKET'S COORDINATING POWERS BETWEEN SUPPLY AND DEMAND ARE FAR MORE EFFICIENT THAN CENTRAL PLANNING.  MOST PEOPLE TODAY REALIZE THAT HUMAN BEINGS ARE FAR TOO FALLIBLE TO RELIABLY AND EFFICIENTLY CONTROL SUCH THINGS ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL, THE COLLECTIVE DECISION MAKING POWERS OF THE MARKET DOES FAR BETTER.  THE REAL DISCUSSION SEEMS TO BE OVER "CAPITALISM WITH A HUMAN FACE" OR SOCIAL WELFARE RATHER THAN TRUE MARXIST ECONOMICS.
This is highly irregular.

RomanSoldier

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2010, 09:44:23 pm »
Ndeed

Terribletiger

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2010, 09:45:37 pm »
Quote
[size=110]<MyIsaak>   But bi doubles your chances of getting a date Saturday night
   <ApronChef>   not true
   <ApronChef>   its harder for them to pick which gender they wanna flower
        <Terribletiger> Sig'd[/size]

RomanSoldier

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2010, 09:49:09 pm »
no u

Terribletiger

  • Posts: 3789
Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2010, 09:49:33 pm »
no u
Quote
[size=110]<MyIsaak>   But bi doubles your chances of getting a date Saturday night
   <ApronChef>   not true
   <ApronChef>   its harder for them to pick which gender they wanna flower
        <Terribletiger> Sig'd[/size]

RomanSoldier

  • Posts: 12633
Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2010, 09:53:03 pm »
No me

Terribletiger

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Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2010, 09:53:27 pm »
No Steve
Quote
[size=110]<MyIsaak>   But bi doubles your chances of getting a date Saturday night
   <ApronChef>   not true
   <ApronChef>   its harder for them to pick which gender they wanna flower
        <Terribletiger> Sig'd[/size]

RomanSoldier

  • Posts: 12633
Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2010, 09:58:39 pm »
No steves mother

Terribletiger

  • Posts: 3789
Re: THE PROBLEM WITH USING MARXISM TO UNDERSTAND REVOLUTION
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2010, 09:59:00 pm »
No your mother
Quote
[size=110]<MyIsaak>   But bi doubles your chances of getting a date Saturday night
   <ApronChef>   not true
   <ApronChef>   its harder for them to pick which gender they wanna flower
        <Terribletiger> Sig'd[/size]

 

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