Author Topic: Scotland's Oil?  (Read 5388 times)

Alice

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2014, 02:10:43 pm »
Also it'll be funny when RBS and Lloyds, both currently based in Scotland, move to London to protect their access to the free market and maintain the pound.
Aha', oops, forgot about this one. That'll be fun for them too.

First one to guess the name of Scotland's new currency wins a free hat, gogo
Euro :3
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Iain Keers

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2014, 02:16:52 pm »
They'll be trading old betting slips after the barter economy fails
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Diakun

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2014, 05:05:24 pm »
gib independent yorkshire
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
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Prof Moriarty

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2014, 05:35:09 pm »
You all make me laugh. I'm not sure if you guys are trying to be funny, or are just following the stereotypes that the UK has fed you of Scots for years.

Scotland's oil is Scotland's oil, as it is. How much of USA's oil does the UK try and tax as its own? Or Brunei's, as another example of a bustling oil country independent from the UK? Am I going to be entering another countries waters when I go the beach at Aberdour? Of course not. Next you'll be claiming that the Scottish whisky industry shouldn't be deemed Scottish and should be taxed by the UK post a yes vote.

I'd also bring up Scotland's coal but considering that industry was annihilated at the hands of Westminster I don't believe there to be anything left.

I always wonder if we are truly part of a Union, or if recent weeks have shown us its more England, (Or Westminster, in all honesty, as many English people seem open to the whole concept of freedom from Westminster itself and have professed their desire to move to an independent Scotland) tells us what happens and we have to lie down and take it. If the Pound isn't ours after independence, is it really ours right now? Or are we just allowed to use it by our benevolent masters such as yourselves?
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CottonPicken

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2014, 05:39:24 pm »
You all make me laugh. I'm not sure if you guys are trying to be funny, or are just following the stereotypes that the UK has fed you of Scots for years.

Scotland's oil is Scotland's oil, as it is. How much of USA's oil does the UK try and tax as its own? Or Brunei's, as another example of a bustling oil country independent from the UK? Am I going to be entering another countries waters when I go the beach at Aberdour? Of course not. Next you'll be claiming that the Scottish whisky industry shouldn't be deemed Scottish and should be taxed by the UK post a yes vote.

I'd also bring up Scotland's coal but considering that industry was annihilated at the hands of Westminster I don't believe there to be anything left.

I always wonder if we are truly part of a Union, or if recent weeks have shown us its more England, (Or Westminster, in all honesty, as many English people seem open to the whole concept of freedom from Westminster itself and have professed their desire to move to an independent Scotland) tells us what happens and we have to lie down and take it. If the Pound isn't ours after independence, is it really ours right now? Or are we just allowed to use it by our benevolent masters such as yourselves?

You tell em, Moriarty!

Diakun

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2014, 05:51:59 pm »
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
I've got a picture of diakun and his dick
he can easily make people ashamed of how small they are, cause his is big
need to know anything else?

Iain Keers

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2014, 06:07:22 pm »
Most English people are fairly genial towards Scotland. The same cannot be said of most Scottish people towards the English.

Let me explain some things to you Moriarty:

1. The English taxpayer heavily subsidises Scotland for it's free healthcare and education - which we don't get

2. The so called "Scottish" (ie North Sea Oil) was paid for and developed by British companies not Scottish ones, and by a British Government not a Scottish one. Since the British government is primarily financed by England, simply having the oil nearer to your shore than ours does not qualify you to take it all without any sort of recompense. At the very least you would have to refund England for their contributions towards developing the oil resources in the first place- about 9/10 of the cost, or several times the entire tax income of Scotland.

3. Much of the nationalist financial planning is based on Scottish businesses such as RBS, Lloyds, Barr, Alliance Trust etc remaining based in Scotland. That would not happen. They are happy in Scotland so long as they have access to London and through it, the free market and all of the UK's mutual trade agreements worldwide. Agreements Scotland would NOT inherit. And if you want a clue at how long it would take to get new agreements that include Scotland- well the latest round of trade talks began in 2001 and are still ongoing.

4. On currency- the basic situation now is that the whole UK policy is set by a single Central Bank which the Central Government is ultimately responsible for. The Scottish parliament has no say over it. If they left however and kept the pound, and the Scottish economy crashed, they would rely on the Bank of England to bail them out. Why should we do that? In 2008 the UK government injected £37 billion to save RBS and Lloyds, two banks based in Scotland. They also offered £500 billion of loans to banks to recapitalise them. The whole country of Scotland had a GDP of below £200bn that year. In fact the entire tax income of Scotland is less than a quarter of that- and remember that England is already subsidising Scotland by £1100 per person.

5. Speaking of Oil, if you do go independent don't rely on that as an income source. Scotland's small economy is very fragile and around 20% of all income would be derived from taxing oil production. Bearing in mind that the USA's sudden lack of demand for oil due to fracking, and their goal for oil self-sufficiency by 2035, you can expect prices and thus income to fall. In fact they're already falling. HMRC are predicting a 40% fall in oil income over the next five years. From heights of 4.5 billion barrels a year in the mid 90s, they're extracting only 1.2 billion barrels a year now. In fact there are only 24 billion barrels left, which is much harder to get at and thus far more expensive. Short of cutting a deal with the oil supermajors, Scotland would have to appeal to the UK for a joint venture. And that is not very likely.


I could go on all day, but the point is Scotland has a very good deal as part of the Union, and if it feels like there is English anger about separatism it is because we're frankly fed up of Scottish nationalists whining on about stuff as if we were oppressing them. The fact is we're the most historically successful partnership in history, but it seems like brainless nationalists who are seemingly incapable of doing any sort of rational thinking are stampeding Scottish people towards independence on the basis of Braveheart-like chest beating about English domination.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 06:09:28 pm by Iain Keers »
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Alice

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2014, 06:18:47 pm »
I support a union tax (£600 per person in Scotland per year) and revokation of all Scottish benefits when the no vote wins.
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Everything you say is boring and incomprehensible, but that alone doesn't make it true.
Quote from: Professor Bob Boblo
He had spent his whole life despised and hated for the mere triviality of wearing dresses and make-up despite possessing a (rather magnificent) penis, and this persecution had fostered within him both a desperate yearning to be loved and appreciated, and an iconoclastic desire to subvert and destroy the odious traditions on which society was built.

Thomas765

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2014, 06:39:04 pm »
To be honest, I thought the main nationalist argument was "WE WERE ONCE INDEPENDENT WE SHOULD BE INDEPENDENT ONCE AGAIN. THE HONOUR OF WILLIAM WALLACE COMMANDS IT", despite the fact that most of Wallace's life was simply legend. Personally, as someone who is going to vote no in September, I see no logic whatsoever of leaving the UK. It's a welcoming thought that most of my uni course are voting the same. It seems to be a minority that would vote yes, my American lecturer is one such example.

Wayne

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2014, 07:19:11 pm »
I'd rather see an independent England.





Prof Moriarty

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2014, 07:22:29 pm »
1. Subsidies. Scotland pays more in than it gets out. Hence, we subsidise you rather than the other way around. And don't moan about not getting free healthcare and education. That's Your Governments choice, those who you voted for. Perhaps if you hadn't turned into such a grotesquely right-wing, benefits hating, immigrant afraid mess you could also have implemented these things. Average tax revenue per head from Scotland was £1700 higher than the people of the rUK.

2. Its not just British companies that work there. Its companies from all over the World. Are we going to refund the US companies as well? Perhaps if the UK hadn't made such a mess of how it used the oil money in the last forty years we wouldn't be in this position. perhaps if we had used it like Norway, who have an oil fund for the future, rather than wasting it away on such things as a pointless war in Iraq which only seems to have happened for more oil. Perhaps you can also explain to me why we are the second worst for fuel poverty in the EU despite the oil?

3. None of those companies you mentioned have stated, or even threatened, to move in the event of independence. In fact, following Vince Cable's threats about RBS moving HQ out of Edinburgh, RBS replied with the fact that they would make it work. If they had to work in another country in addition to those that they already do, so be it.

4. You would have still bailed the banks out even if we were independent. Despite being head quartered in London, Barclays was primarily bailed out by the US Federal Reserve. It doesn't work on where the bank is headquartered. It works on where the assets and business of the company lie. As Harvard professor and international banking expert Andrew Hughes-Hallet said “the cost of Scotland’s contribution to the bank bail out as an independent country would have been roughly the same as it was as part of the UK – roughly 10%”. Also noted that the US Federal Reserve made emergency loans available to RBS of £285bn and to HBOS of £115bn, yet I don't see you pining for us to join the Americans.

5. Tell that to the Norwegians. Fragile economy and such like.

Scotland's largest food bank ran out of food at the weekend, and had to turn away starving families. Rosyth, where I'm from, where billions of pounds are wasted on an aircraft carrier that we don't even know if we can afford the aircraft on are partially built, has saw a food bank open in the past week. We have a population of around 5000 (Rosyth, by the way, has saw 14000 jobs lost in the dockyard, before you bring that up about how independence threatens the shipyard). Easterhouse in Glasgow has a life expectancy lower than the state pension age. The UK is now the third most unequal country in the developed world. Scotland gets who Middle England votes for, whether that be the Red or Blue Tories or even worse, UKIP, every time. Go on and tell me again how this is the most successful union in history.

Thats without even mentioning having Trident on the Clyde near to our largest city, deemed too dangerous for Plymouth, a wealth gap twice as wide as any other EU country and 1 in 5 children at my school technically in poverty.

Or how about a Capital which is closer to Paris than it is to myself. One which sees millions of pounds spent on it whilst we are left to whither. Scotland paying for the Olympics in London, for London's sewage system, for HS2. Where are the economic benefits of this for Scotland? Our saving grace is the Barnett formula, which will likely be scrapped if we vote no because Tories and Labour both despise it.

And you mention Braveheart. How typical. How original. We just hate the English is all. Tell that to the SNP MSPs and MPs born in England, such as Mike Russell and Angus Robertson, both born in England. Or those English people voting for independence because they hate what Westminster has become. One where the likes of Nigel Farage look exceedingly likely to get elected, his party, yet to even win back a deposit in Scotland never mind a seat, actually considered now in the run-up to elections. When Farage came to Edinburgh and was scared off, he blamed it on anti-English sentiment. The man arrested that day for throwing juice over Farage's aide? Surprise, surprise. English. We don't hate the English. We hate what England, particularly the South-East, has become. If we went independent, I'd happily take the North with us.

This Union has only ever benefited one party. Scotland, if independent right now, would be the 8th richest in the World. Yet we have pensioners starving in the Winter, we have food banks where families are turned away. You infer that we are scroungers and subsidy junkies and jocks and sweaty socks, and when we deny this you call us whining nationalists.



Watch this, and you might understand how I feel.

And to Thomas. yes, we were once a country. Thats part of it. I don't feel British. I feel Scottish. I don't want myself to be associated with Britain, that "great empire" that established concentration camps and enslaved races. I have never said to anybody YOU SHOULD VOTE YES BECAUSE OF WILLIAM WALLACE. Why would I? Thats silly. It would be like saying VOTE NO BECAUSE WE STOPPED THE NAZIS TOGETHER. Oh wait. I have been told that, despite having the French and the Americans and the Australians and all those others stop them.

Maybe we will vote no, and we will have our budget cut by Westminster. I wonder how long we will be able to keep that free university tuition and still public NHS when Westminster tries to squeeze us of every drop of oil, blood and cash left in us in the name of Austerity.

Seems to be? You should come to where I live, where children come from council estates and require free school meals because their income is so low. The Yes vote is growing ever larger, as more people feel bullied by Westminster and hopeful of what independence could mean. A fairer society.
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CottonPicken

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2014, 07:26:31 pm »
And to Thomas. yes, we were once a country. Thats part of it. I don't feel British. I feel Scottish. I don't want myself to be associated with Britain, that "great empire" that established concentration camps and enslaved races.

I used to feel like that too. Don't worry, you'll grow out of it.

Wayne

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2014, 07:37:42 pm »
And to Thomas. yes, we were once a country. Thats part of it. I don't feel British. I feel Scottish. I don't want myself to be associated with Britain, that "great empire" that established concentration camps and enslaved races.

I used to feel like that too. Don't worry, you'll grow out of it.

I'm not British, I'm English.





Prof Moriarty

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2014, 07:39:46 pm »
And to Thomas. yes, we were once a country. Thats part of it. I don't feel British. I feel Scottish. I don't want myself to be associated with Britain, that "great empire" that established concentration camps and enslaved races.

I used to feel like that too. Don't worry, you'll grow out of it.

I'm not British, I'm English.

You understand how I feel Wayne, patriotic wise.



The above is a prime example of how not to win voters, and how to put me off Britain. Reminds me of the first page of this thread.
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Wayne

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2014, 07:55:47 pm »
The grass ain't always greener, bro...





Sexagenarian

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2014, 08:25:08 pm »
 Joan Lamont MSP and Leader of the Scottish Labour Party; "We're not genetically programmed to make political decisions in Scotland"

Viridi

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2014, 08:28:14 pm »
I consider myself more British than English. ^_^

:)
ive done some things

Iain Keers

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2014, 09:07:07 pm »
OMG Moriarty. I would respond to that wall of fail, but literally all your figures are just lifted straight out of SNP propaganda. Instead of going to somethingsomethingSCOTLAND.com for your figures, try actually going to accurate impartial bodies like the EU or the World Bank. Basically 100% bullshit.

I almost hope Scotland does get independence so it can fail so badly it begs to be back in the Union.


Ps. as someone from the North East, I'd rather go with France than with Scotland. At least their delusion comes with warm weather and decent wine.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 09:08:46 pm by Iain Keers »
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Prof Moriarty

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2014, 09:36:28 pm »
I almost hope Scotland does get independence so it can fail so badly it begs to be back in the Union.

Because Scotland would be the first country to ever gain independence and then beg to go back.

K bro. Sure.

EDIT: Also, nice to know that the food bank stuff, children in poverty stuff that I witness is just, you know, "SNP propaganda". I'll just return to my role as a subsidy junkie who relies on your hard earned cash Iain. Might as well live up to your stereotypes.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 09:40:34 pm by Prof Moriarty »
Atticus Sand, Lord of Last Post Wins

Metapod

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Re: Scotland's Oil?
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2014, 09:48:44 pm »


I'M A RAINBOW CITIZEN.

 

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