Poll

Should all recreational drugs be legal?

Yes
16 (47.1%)
No
14 (41.2%)
Unopposed
3 (8.8%)
Uncertain
1 (2.9%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Author Topic: Should all recreational drugs be legal?  (Read 4762 times)

Wayne

  • Pretty much the most badass eUKer...
  • Archivists
  • Posts: 2517
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2014, 01:06:42 am »
do you include alcohol and subscription drugs in that statistic? 





Iain Keers

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 12057
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2014, 03:02:13 am »
You can read my views on the use of legal drugs in my first post.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Stianoux

  • Woldean Court
  • Posts: 4125
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2014, 03:50:38 am »
I think everyone who needs medical care have the inherent right to receive it, regardless of how their health deteriorated. However, the healthcare system should obviously not subsidize drug use.

In a hypothetical scenario where all recreational drugs are legal, I really don't think it would be much of an issue for the people who sell these drugs to properly monitor their customer's purchases and cut them off, should they have bought more or spent more money than what is considered responsible. They used to do it for renting films, what's stopping them from doing it with drugs? I think such a regulated system could be very useful in terms of preventing the medical and economical damage that could potentially occur when using drugs. Think of it as the bartender cutting you off because you've had one too many.

They could also educate people in proper use of recreational drugs, as opposed to now when information and knowledge about drugs is repressed. This too would go a long way to prevent damage from drugs, especially of the medical kind.

There are plenty of solutions for the problems that may occur and all you need to utilize them is some common sense.

Iain Keers

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 12057
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2014, 06:51:27 am »
If someone is a heroin addict, providing them with heroin or methadone or whatever is part of their treatment most of the time. I believe that national insurance is just that - a safety net. If you significantly increase the risk to your health through taking drugs the increased cost to keep you healthy should not be paid for by responsible citizens.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

bananaboy378

  • Posts: 58
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2014, 08:44:44 am »
I don't believe they should be legaised, simply because most arguments that are pro removal of legislation are based around the fact that most adults are responsible, mature, i would leave my child with them and think about what they put into their bodies. But that's simply not the case. Due to the flowering stupidity by a significant percentage of the population, they should be frankly protected from themselves.

If you think they should be legalised... Just think of a world were BigAnt could get high and lose all his reasoning...
Banana wuz here

Tommiecat

  • The Aged and Eminent
  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 110
  • If the facts don't fit the theory...
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2014, 01:07:24 pm »
Yeeees... Free ganja for y'all.  :green:

Diakun

  • Hikikomori
  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 13870
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2014, 01:30:44 pm »
Nymeus - 5:56 PM
I've got a picture of diakun and his dick
he can easily make people ashamed of how small they are, cause his is big
need to know anything else?

Tommiecat

  • The Aged and Eminent
  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 110
  • If the facts don't fit the theory...
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2014, 02:19:43 pm »


Epic face when the naive lady asks if the pot on the show is real...  :)

Sexagenarian

  • Grumpy Old F@rt
  • Posts: 756
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2014, 07:00:57 pm »
I don't believe they should be legaised, simply because most arguments that are pro removal of legislation are based around the fact that most adults are responsible, mature, i would leave my child with them and think about what they put into their bodies. But that's simply not the case. Due to the flowering stupidity by a significant percentage of the population, they should be frankly protected from themselves.

If you think they should be legalised... Just think of a world were BigAnt could get high and lose all his reasoning...

Why should people be protected from themselves? So someone gets high and dies, at least it means my grandchildren have marginally less competition for the planet. Think of it as evolution in action

Tommiecat

  • The Aged and Eminent
  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 110
  • If the facts don't fit the theory...
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2014, 07:12:05 pm »
I'm supporting the legalisation of all drugs... because I do believe that stupid people should be allowed all the opportunities to kill themselves.  >:(

Stianoux

  • Woldean Court
  • Posts: 4125
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2014, 07:49:56 pm »
If someone is a heroin addict, providing them with heroin or methadone or whatever is part of their treatment most of the time. I believe that national insurance is just that - a safety net. If you significantly increase the risk to your health through taking drugs the increased cost to keep you healthy should not be paid for by responsible citizens.

Drug users can't be responsible citizens? And is paying for injuries caused by extreme sports, sports, self-inflicted injuries or alcohol and tobacco somehow better than paying for the injuries caused by drugs?

Addiction is a terrible curse, and in such cases I would agree to providing the addicts with the drugs they feel they need, but I also think that the doses they receive should be evenly decreased over a period of time to free them of their addiction. Preferably, addiction should be combated through education of proper drug usage and through refusing to sell people more than a certain quota.

Personally I don't think heroin should be legalized, I believe it's incredibly harmful, but at the same time I believe that people have the right to use whatever drug they want. I would always speak against using heroin, always keep me and my own away from it to the best of my ability, but I think it's up to each and every person to decide what they choose to ingest.

There's a quote from Terrence McKenna that I think is kind of appropriate:

“If the words ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’ don’t include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn’t worth the hemp it was written on.”

Iain Keers

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 12057
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2014, 08:08:14 pm »
Sigh, typical arguments. Let's look at them one after another:

1. Comparing extreme sports of self-inflicted harm to drug use. First of all extreme sports people who deliberately put themselves in harms way should have to pay higher NI yes. If you got insurance on your car and said you liked to occasionally drive it down steep hillsides in the dark you'd get a massive premium to pay too. Self harm is a mental health issue, it's not self inflicted. People don't choose to be depressed or suicidal.

2. Addiction can be combated by education. How many addicts are there in the UK? Drug charities reckon the number stands at over 320k people addicted to class A drugs. Costs the UK more than £13 billion a year. Despite it being outright illegal, and there being absolutely tonnes of educational matter everywhere. Making that easier to get will only increase the number. And addiction isn't something you can just stop.

3. Heroin should be illegal. Well done you have just argued against the OP, and are thus on my side in this argument. I hope you change your vote. There's a habit (as I've said already) for people to think of drug legalisation in terms of cannabis. In fact, pot is probably one of the least harmful drugs out there. However the question is about legalising all recreational (ie non medical) drugs. That means everything from horse tranquillisers to heroin. This isn't a question about cannabis.

4. Alcohol and tobacco. Both are harmful drugs which are legal in our society and have been for so long that illegalising them would be impossible. However they do cause harm. The fact is that saying "these bad things are allowed, we should allow more bad things" is false logic. Both are victims of enormous taxes, education campaigns and both have seen declines in usage over the last fifteen years. However they are still responsible for tens of billion in healthcare costs each year- and yes I believe people who smoke and drink, especially in medically harmful amounts, should pay higher NI as they are increasing their health costs.

5. Liberty goes two ways. In other words if you want more freedom to experiment with harmful drugs, then you should also pay any increased costs that those drugs bring to the state. There's no good reason that a health conscious person who takes care of themselves should pay the enormous cost of a heroin addicts treatment. It's not like cancer or whatever where it's a lottery and people pay in on the understanding that if they get it they can take out the collective pot for treatment. People who use recreational drugs choose to do something that deliberately increases the cost of their healthcare. Whether it's tobacco or meths, you should pay more.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Tommiecat

  • The Aged and Eminent
  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 110
  • If the facts don't fit the theory...
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2014, 08:17:46 pm »
Ok... On a more serious note, besides the obvious fact that youth will probably consume less drugs because currently they are doing it as an act of teribilism, legalisation would reduce (if not eliminate) the black market. Therefore, I think it's fair to say that not only will the economy benefit from taxation, but it will also (probably) reduce the violence and crime ratio.

Iain Keers

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 12057
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2014, 08:46:40 pm »
There's no evidence to suggest either thing to be true.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

Stianoux

  • Woldean Court
  • Posts: 4125
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2014, 09:10:29 pm »
There's no evidence to suggest either thing to be true.

If the authorities manage to efficiently crack down on those who sell drugs illegally, and offer these drugs at cheaper, more reasonable prices at proper stores and locations, criminals will simply not be able to compete. They are already doing this with cannabis in Uruguay:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/22/uruguay-legal-cannabis-1-dollar-gram

"The illegal market is very risky and of poor quality," he said. "The price of marijuana from Paraguay that gets sold on the streets here is about $1 a gram, so we're going to set the price of government-controlled cannabis at around that same price. We want to snatch the market away from the drug traffickers."

"In reality, cannabis only costs about half a dollar a gram to produce in Uruguay," said Juan Vaz,46, a computer programmer and veteran legalisation campaigner from the capital city, Montevideo. "So when the government says that by next year we could be buying it at $1 a gram, that sounds very reasonable."

However, if this sort of arrangement can be achieved with all drugs I cannot say, but surely it cannot be impossible.

Currently, every time consumers purchase and ingest drugs, they take the risk of getting into trouble with the law. If they had a legal option, why would they still choose that risk? It doesn't make any sense.

You say legalizing drugs will bring on more medical expenses, but how high would these expenses be?
I don't know about the UK, but I know the US spends $20,000,000,000 per year on prohibition of cannabis. And that's just cannabis. Imagine if you add the costs of prohibition against every single illegal substance. What would be more expensive?

I simply don't think that one person has the right to tell another person that they can't ingest this and that drug.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 09:27:40 pm by Stianoux »

Thomas765

  • Party - UKRP
  • Posts: 8158
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2014, 11:07:00 pm »
I voted unopposed on the premise that:

1. Cannabis is so commonplace here that it might as well not be considered illegal. You can smell it walking through the city centre. It might be Dundee but I can guarantee that it's the same in other cities. I can't argue about other drugs, on the other hand. As far as I can see, laws aren't stopping a percentage of people from both obtaining and distributing drugs. More often than not, it appears that not a lot of people get caught.

2. If I wanted to smoke - which I do - I can easily go out my own way to do it. It's legal. I can harm my body if I want in that regard. If I wanted to waste away my life by having a twice-daily McDonalds for breakfast and dinner, I can also do that. But I can't enjoy a smoke of cannabis, even though it is less unhealthy, especially in the short-term, than the two aforementioned things. I have had it before, but I don't have it often.

3. My only concern is that people who do take advantage of laws being lifted is the social cost of it, should they wish to get so addicted that it causes them harm and hospitalisation. I'm not suggesting that it isn't a problem now, but it could be more of one. But it's not impossible to introduce measures against people who wish to have treatment for it. On the other hand people here use sporting related injuries as examples, but what about smoking, alcoholic and obesity related treatment? The only tax I definitively know I'm paying directly is the VAT, but I know that I probably wouldn't be happy knowing that I'm indirectly helping that arsehole who decided it would be funny to shove his fist through a brick wall when he was drunk - and as a result of his drunkenness.

Iain Keers

  • Party - TUP
  • Posts: 12057
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2014, 06:47:16 am »
Comparing McDonald's to heroin. Please.
"Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." ~ Mt 11:28

johnobrow

  • Posts: 13707
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2014, 01:51:45 am »
I don't see why the government and taxpayer should pay a fortune for medical care for self inflicted harm from drug use. People who argue for full legalisation and then expect the public to pay for their addiction are mad.

What reactionary bollocks is this? I suppose we shouldn't give medical support to those suffering from eating disorders or illnesses resulting from smoking tobacco either then.

We need to clamp down on drug use and be brutal. Just the slightest smell of weed should result in life imprisonment, if not execution on the spot. The fewer aspiring Johno's we have in this country, the safer it will be for all.

More Johnos would be better for everyone - I'm a very beautiful man.

In my opinion most of the problems surrounding drugs stem from their illegal status. Drugs are simply a tool, but when they're made a taboo it becomes difficult to access reliable information on the effects of their use (let alone access relevant medical help where that's necessary) and common sense typically goes out the window. On the one hand you have many people for whom the word 'drugs' triggers knee-jerk condemnation, citing their illegality, how drug users are addicts and they lead to crime - there's also a common failure to recognise the vast differences between different types of drugs. On the other there is the outlaw culture that follows on from banning something - drugs become cool and rebellious, a fetishisation takes place. I think both positions are stupid and not informed by reality and I think that is a consequence of the law as it stands.

Alcohol prohibition in the USA didn't stop people drinking, it just unnecessarily ruined people's lives through state and criminal violence. The same thing is happening through the prohibition of drugs.
EREP IS DEAD LABOUR AND DEAD TIME - LIFE IS ELSEWHERE
-------->DESTROY THAT WHICH DESTROYS YOU<--------

Sexagenarian

  • Grumpy Old F@rt
  • Posts: 756
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2014, 08:47:40 am »
I don't see why the government and taxpayer should pay a fortune for medical care for self inflicted harm from drug use. People who argue for full legalisation and then expect the public to pay for their addiction are mad.

... we shouldn't give medical support to those suffering from eating disorders or illnesses resulting from smoking tobacco either then.


x2

If people want to kill themselves by whatever means then let them go ahead. From a Green perspective, this should be a good thing as taking these people out of the world means fewer of the planet's resources are consumed to support them.


mittekemuis

  • Party - UKRP
  • Posts: 535
Re: Should all recreational drugs be legal?
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2014, 02:27:58 pm »
I don't see why the government and taxpayer should pay a fortune for medical care for self inflicted harm from drug use. People who argue for full legalisation and then expect the public to pay for their addiction are mad.

... we shouldn't give medical support to those suffering from eating disorders or illnesses resulting from smoking tobacco either then.


x2

If people want to kill themselves by whatever means then let them go ahead. From a Green perspective, this should be a good thing as taking these people out of the world means fewer of the planet's resources are consumed to support them.



In Belgium you already have these discrimination. Like for example medication for heart and veins is more expensive because the reasoning is we have bad eating habits and this is the result. If you get COPD which is an illness mainly commen by heavy smokers you can not get certain meds because you are getting punished for smoking.
Same with liver transplants for heavy drinkers ....


"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer, but don't become friends because then you'll have a tough time whether to keep them close or closer."

 

With Quick-Reply you can write a post when viewing a topic without loading a new page. You can still use bulletin board code and smileys as you would in a normal post.

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Name: Email:
Verification:
Type the letters shown in the picture
Listen to the letters / Request another image
Type the letters shown in the picture:
What precious metal is a currency in erepublik?:
How do you spell 'Frerk'?:
What social MMO is this forum linked to?: